Again, Trump is a duchė, but people are attacking him over his own personal moral compass. President Obama was a chivalrous well spoken individual, yet he was a horrible president and leader. Debt at all time high, race relations at 1960s levels. Country more divided than ever. Also class disparities at record levels with no middle class to speak of, and hated by the world at large.

@ssorenn

i wouldn't be talking about chivalry, there might be some mecha-feminists around here

Such bullshit to hear from people who complain about morals and character.

Oh no! Just give him some time! Wait to hear about his policies!

As if you didn't hear the hatred and anger and racism in his rhetoric. Those words were just apparently 'alternate words'.

@kutabear
I know that's not directed at me. I just said he was elected. I said nothing about wait and see

Class disparities may also get worse under Trump. I wouldn't blame that on Obama though. The establishment in this country seems to be hellbent on making the middle class smaller and smaller.

@JK

"Such bullshit to hear from people who complain about morals and character."

umm... is that for me? the chivalry comment was a joke

"Oh no! Just give him some time! Wait to hear about his policies!"

yeah. "policies" are exactly what AFFECT us. that's why i'm are concerned about them

"As if you didn't hear the hatred and anger and racism in his rhetoric."

if he passes ONLY good policy, then I won't like him, but it will be better for the country. this isn't that hard to understand

"Those words were just apparently 'alternate words'."

hahahahaha yeah Conway is such a prick.

more* concerned

Correct, ssorenn.

But there are many, many Trumpers out there--some of whom troll on webDip--who mercilessly attacked Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, and anyone they can really, over their morals. Now they give Trump a pass on his morals and make it all about policy?

It's outrageous.

@Yanik, I am not sure I agree that racial tensions got worse under Obama. The way it was said could be interpreted to imply that Obama was the cause, which I think is inaccurate. I think the racial tension has always been there. I think there was hope within the black community that a black president would be able to address some of the institution racism that still exists today. The greater spotlight on police brutality due to the increased prevalence of video phones has heightened what still needs to be done and the frustration due to the lack of change has caused the black community to rightfully push for more.

Well. I don't have a crystal ball ---beyond te nature of leftist govt policies, I'm not surprised that the middle class is gone. The main body of our old middle class was based on manufacturing jobs that have no possibility of returning. We can't compete in price structure with other countries and tech and innovation and automation will take the place of the rest.

To be fair ssorenn the world hated the United States long before Obama. They've just been becoming more and more open about it these past few decades. I'll give you the race relations but to say the debt is entirely on Obama just wouldn't be honest. The great recession didn't exactly help matters there and that was twenty years in the making at least.

That has really nothing to do with left or right. It's just a fact

This will be a new generation on technology. Jobs will be front and center in this e fields

So, where do you think the Great Recession started ?? If you say bush--you're stupid or uneducated

No I'm not blaming Bush ssorenn. Kindly let me state my case before you bite my head off. The real culprits of the great recession were not Presidents and I would say the ground work was laid in the early 1990s. You can pretty much thank Alan Greenspan for facilitating the events that would ultimately lead to the massive financial crisis in late 2007 early 2008.

Ssoren, you claims don't hold any water because you don't account for inflation or GDP growth. In fact debt to GDP flatlined under Obama. He inherited the highest Debt ratio since WWII (which was markedly higher) and a massive deficit. He reduced the deficit by about 70% and kept debt from growing in the aftermath of the Bush economy. If you want to point to a horrible president, you should point to the guy who actually ran up the debt: George W Bush. In fact, the US was a lot less hated under Obama than Bush as well (and Trump seems to heading back into Bush levels). Similar problems exist with your claims about income inequality. It spiked under Bush and flatlined under Ovama largely. It could have gone down, except for Republican obstructionism.

I think pretty much everyone is thoroughly sick of the infantile "alternative facts" and fake news of the Republicans already and I see no reason to tolerate non factual bullshit here.

Also, your claims about race relations don't hold water. Maybe you think they're worse because as a white guy you're only hearing about the problems now for the first time. Doesn't mean they didn't exist before

Though I suppose you could look at the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 as a likely contributor, at least to the housing market crash.

And yes, the Bush tax cuts and the lack of oversight by Bush definitely contributed. Republicans had been running the show for many years. Of course, deregulation under Clinton was also to blame, but the actual bubble ran rampant under the laisez faire regime of Bush, precisely as many predicted.

Seriously, ssoren? Attack, defend, attack, defend. Conversation without listening is masturbation.

So. Mastertow was another synonym for masturbation.

After bushs presidency national debt was 8trillion now 20 trillion not inclusive of household and education debt. So somewhere around 40trillion. The Great Recession started with Clinton and Dodd and frank in the Oval Office. While these policies were exasterbated by bush and his wars, they were the catalyst for the Great Depression. The bank lending standards made easy money the drug of the late 90s

What I want is for everyone to relax their choke-hold on ideologies and hot-button words like "leftist" and "deplorable" and be broken and contrite for the state of our country's deteriorating internal communication.

Leftist and deplorable have nothing to do with each other. The ideologies fall on either one side or the other. That's what need to change. Ideologies should be American in nature. Whatever gets us as a country to a better place.

They have everything to do with each other. Both words exist because of the same social disease. If we have the same conversations over the same topics without using words like those, without saying "_____ is to blame for ______. They and everyone who thinks like them are morons." Then we can have an actual conversation. I'm saying this to you because you aren't just slinging mud. You are a leader. If you don't contribute to troll culture when there are such high stakes, it will matter.

@ssorenn

don't bother debating Ogion on economics, you'll get more done screaming at a brick wall

@JK

yeah, that's fair

I love my man Ogion. Politics not withstanding he's as solid an individual that resides on this site.

At ogion, I live in downtown Chicago. I played basketball growing up in every neighborhood in this city. I am a white guy, no I don't see color. But if you're a fucking dirtbag, color is insignificant. Every race and every creed has them. There are reasons why there are derogatory names for all colors and ethnicities---those names are appropriate to some. All you arm chair people who spout crap ha

You conveniently ignore FY 2009, Bush's last budget which had $12 trillion in debt for a GDP debt ratio of 82% it now stands at 103% largely as a result of the Great Recession. Meanwhile Bush too the GDP ratio from under 60 to over 80. Again, blaming Obama is specious as hell