France's position is awkward here. Marseilles should clearly go to Spain, which means the only productive move is Portugal to MAO. This kind of means that England probably would reason that Brest is going to English Channel, somewhat forcing an English move to English Channel, somewhat forcing the move from Brest to English Channel, and so on. The point now is that England's natural move is to move on France (and he would *definitely* do this if not for Germany's shenanigans).

I would have considered going army Brest here as France to avoid that, but I realize that's controversial. It's hard not to get a second fleet. The real lesson is: you're France, you already have a huge advantage. Cover your home SCs in 1901. (Imagine if he hadn't even got Belgium, which was as likely as not!)

I like army St. Petersburg. It's flexible, defensive, and lets England look west if he'd like. That's a pretty good combination.

The board is just giving more and more proof that Turkey should have bounced Greece. I still think that is by far the worst move of the game so far.

Theres certainly an argument for that, but don't you think that would have made Turkey two enemies out of Austria and Russia. He's going to be hard pressed to make much of his gains with Austria on his good side

No. Austria is in Rumania. Russia is clamoring for a juggernaut.

+1 paulyork and uclabb.

A Turkish pivot to head west is still plausible at this point, although not as effective as bouncing Greece would have been.

And yeah, A StP says "I'm going to try to take Norway (and be sure nobody nabs StP), hopefully with German help, but am not interested in further points west". Given
what's going on on the southern front, that is not at all a bad choice.

As for German Mun-Tyr... meddling in the east with a lone unit? In gunboat? Heck, I've been a german in F2F with a lone army in Tyr for *years* - it was barely beneficial in F2F where I could use it as an excuse to talk to people and actually have some influence. I doubt it'd be worth much in online gunboat, odds are it'll just ping around and get nowhere. I'm not even sure it would actually lessen the pressure on France or Russia or Turkey by *that* much. In all honesty, Mun-Kie is probably the best thing to do with it. :-/ Attacking France seems like a fools errand, and Nth-Hel seems like a distinct possibility.

"The board is just giving more and more proof that Turkey should have bounced Greece. I still think that is by far the worst move of the game so far."

agree

and not only Austria is in Rumania, Austria is in Galicia too. Russia is almost forced to make every defensive move vs. Austria, as I described earlier. Russia (and Turkey) would get a big benefit if Turkey decided to change objectives, but how would Turkey go against Austria after letting him take Greece?

^I think, now Turkey can't really do much, whatever he does is bad, his only hope is that Austria actually allows him in Sev, but this means that Turkey is under Austria's control. And a smart Austria will try to keep things that way.

Eh, I don't think Turkey is in the toilet yet, but by fall he very easily could be.

I disagree that Mun-Tyr has no effect. It dooms Mar at Germany's discretion, and Italy could find it difficult to defend both Ven and Tun if France decides he has the breathing room to move south. Effects on Austria are more speculative. I just don't think the benefits of that move would accrue to Germany, even if England doesn't attack him (and the opportunity's certainly there).

I've got another idea to float, and help me out here if this wouldn't work either: What if France doesn't bounce A Mar-Spa, but lets the army in? Then in the fall he uses F Por/A Gas to oust the Italian army in Spain, and uses A Bur (which came from Paris) to bounce A Piedmont. Italy's army in Spain would have to disband, Italy doesn't have an army in Mar anymore, and even with F WesternMed, that's going to be hard to hold.

Thanks for listening as I think things through.

Refuted (for now) by A02 Spa-Mar with Pie support, and now Italy's fleet reinforcements will be in time. It's a nice thought, though.

Bump. Turkey didn't listen to the gallery's advice.

I'm not sure the gallery was definitive that turning west was a good idea for Turkey. :-) Possible, yes. Good idea, more equivocal.

Looks like Russia's going to stay static at England's expense, maybe. He could still come out badly: Retreat F Nwy - Ska puts Sweden on a 50/50.

England did go Nth-Hel. Interesting times for Germany there.

@Lethologica: Yeah, I guess the point I was making is "how would Mun-Tyr benefit Germany in any way"? It would have had tactical effects, yes. But I'm not sure those would be particularly beneficial. And (as borne out by S02M), England certainly is *continuing* to attack Germany. After all, he hit Holland in F01M - and I don't really see any good options for the English on this map except to keep trying for Germany and hope a neighbour joins in. (Which France may, if he decides to take a shot at Munich rather than trying futilely to recover Mar.)

Retreat to skag should also commit kiel to supporting denmark meaning no fleet build in kiel for another year. Germany can cover munich with ruhr and holland should be safe. Denmark needing support means he cant block the move to north sea. Even if england has to disband his army fleets in north, skag and hel is v annoying for germany.

Surprised austria helped turkey into sevast but hard to get further in that direction.

Im sure russia would like a bounce in moscow in the hope he might get a build there

England's in an awkward position. His eastern attack has been totally rebuffed, but nobody's really set up to go after him. F(Lon) was a mistake if he meant to have any control over Scandinavia (in which case F(Edi) was necessary), but instead he's attacking Germany. He'll need help.

France is as good as could be expected. England's toast if France crumbles now, so we could see him poke Hol to prevent Bel falling, in the event that Germany goes for Bel. Maybe France anticipates and supports that? And moves to Munich? Then Germany would be in difficulty. Italy's not going away, but get that Por-Spa some support and Italy's not moving forward either.

Austria making an extremely friendly support. Repayment for Greece? Either way, Russia's defensive options are miserable here, and AT can make a strong push. The rapid progression of the south highlights the advantages of cooperation compared to the northern chaos. But it's a brittle advantage. The 3-on-Bul/3-on-Rum mirror image situation has developed, and right now that standoff favors Turkey as Bul is slightly better-defended than Rum. I don't think that'll explode yet--both sides have gains to make elsewhere.

Biggest mistake of the turn has to be Ukr S War-Gal, right? I mean, what else was Vie going to do? And everyone and their cousin could see the threat of Arm-Sev, but Russia didn't take any steps against it--possibly believing all the rhetoric from this thread about Turkey needing to stab Austria. But even if Turkey were helping Russia, surely he'd anticipate Ukr-Rum, rather than Sev-Rum. Well, at least Russia has his northern refuge.

the point is, Turkey has only one army up north, so, Russia can easily block Turkey (of course, he won't be able to block Austria so easily) but, where the hell is Turkey gonna go next?

Warsaw-Ukraine-Moscow is still a very defensible southern border for Russia. Holding Scandinavia still gives them the option of pressing north or west - probably north, as German help could make or break their southern line.

Now hear me out. I don't see a path forward for Turkey. I may be wrong, but a shift west to take Romania with the Sevastopol army would be a huge game changer. It would be the catalyst for a juggernaut. Worst case scenario is that Turkey loses Bulgaria and stays stagnant. Russia gains two builds. Turkey takes his fleets south next turn and the entire map is different.

I think Russia should have committed his army to Norway, but I understand leaving it in St. Petersburg to defend if Turkey made gains.

The Italian-French and German-English moves shall be interesting

Austria is being very foolish.

I like not defending Sevastopol here as Russia. It's a good job of creating a position that is conducive to gaining an ally- he no longer has a southern fleet and has made progress in the north so the juggernaut is an extremely natural continuation.

Austria blundered badly here. Supporting Turkey to Sevastopol is just an unacceptable move (new worst move of the game?). What is Turkey's next center? He needed to leave Turkey a task for the fall (taking Sevastopol) to give time to get his own build live and give Turkey a chance to show if he actually was looking to be a long term ally. This also would have kept the option of taking Bulgaria open in the fall. And it's not like he had to support Turkey to Sev here to keep the appearance of alliance. There were plenty of natural attacks of Russia here that would either be big hits or stalling moves leaving the option to take Bulgaria in the fall.

England's moves here show lack of strategic vision. Building in London was really dumb if these were the moves he wanted to make. That build is begging for France to go to EC (still think that would have been the stronger move for France), and if he had built in Edi, he could have ordered Edi to Nwg Sea, Norway to North Sea and have a much more solid position going into the fall.

France needs to think about how plausible a long term E/G war is with G having just one fleet and R helping out G and thus neutering the E attack. Again, I would have wanted to be in EC to help G form a plausible attack and keep him focused in that direction. As that is out the window the stab for Munich does look more and more like something that might be reasonable here (imo).

Going to Gascony would have been a much better move than going to Spain for Italy (even without hindsight).

Even tho austria supported turkey into sev im even more convinced that turkey should turn on austria. 5 centre turkey can hold his corner v well and if russia is prepared to write off sev and just fight austria they have grounds for optimism. If turkey stays loyal to austria i dont see where and when that sixth centre is coming.

Really enjoying the game btw. Never really spectated a game i wsnt involved in. I dont think any country is a lost cause.at all.

I like this AT love romance that is happening in the east. Austria is going to be brutally sodomized in the not so distant future, but it sure is a pretty little thing.

What's the over/under on how long it will be before ucla approves of somebody's moves?

He did start his last essay with "i like". Even tho he was liking something that russia didn't do :)

@uclabb: Hrm. Still, Mar-Spa guarantees holding Mar now for F02M regardless of French moves.

I think Mar-Gas was certainly a good option, but if Spa-Mar then Italy's only got a 50/50 to recover Mar or take Par, assuming France covers Bre. A Gas would certainly have massively destroyed French tempo even if the outcome was Mar lost and nothing gained, which presumably in your book makes it worth it? I guess A Apu is doing nothing active so maybe Italy can afford the disband. Maybe.

MFW: uclabb = UCLA + BB = "University of California, Los Angeles" + brainbomb

illuminati confirmed

Is Ukr S War-Gal a mistake yet? Just checking.