^ So, see this is a good example of when you should probably just ignore him rather then let him sidetrack a conversation.

@Thucy - Krelin doesn't necessarily believe everything he says. He is drass and vulgar to make a point and controversial and aggressive to get the folks here going. In fact, he is much less extreme than he leads on (although not quite as socially progressivecas myself, we do disagree on some areas) but I get his crass humor and outrageous statements forvwhat they are. And I have called him in the carpet both in private and on the forum.

The key to krellin is to see the message behind the hyperbole.

Abfe, the OP was "Participated Hey, Krellin
Go away." which you declared as basically spam, and apparently the thread was shut down.

It BECAME a thread about forum moderation, and you said people should ignore people that offend them...and then you were attacked, and this somehow became personal about you, and now you apparently are upset and wish this to be a thread about you.

My advice to you, abge, is to take your own advice and those that want to spew nonsense at you....ignore them, and they will go away.

That is my view on forum moderation, Abge.

generally speaking, these issues ALL resolve themselves over time...sometimes that times is a matter of minutes...some issues drag on for days....but they resolves themselves, all, because eventually we sleep, all of us, and a thread drops away and is forgotten.

So I'm not sure why you are allowing these *trolls* to drag YOu in to this ridiculous discussion...and it is ridiculous.

The policy is clear...self-moderation...Mute those that annoy you.

So is that sufficient input?

Don[t feed the trolls, abge. Yes..even you sometimes take the bait.

I think it's germane. He is exemplifying exactly why I think my proposed course of action is necessary, with respect to the health and yes prestige of this forum.

For anyone, by the way, who wonders whether krellin posts threads that should be called harassment (as long as this thread can be called that), I refer you to the following, with a score of +9...

http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=1095529&page-thread=1#threadPager

Obviously, as I said, we need a rethink of what exactly constitutes spam and harassment on this forum.

To be clear I am not necessarily saying that the kind of thread needs to be locked. But I *am* saying that it certainly is striking that there was no official response to that thread.

Basically, if krellin can get away with calling me out like that, I'm not going to feel bad about relentlessly interrupting krellin and reminding his readers of what he stands for and how he treats people.

@oscar

"I disagree. Letting krellin's bigotry go unchallenged every time is not proper at all."

You see, the difference between this forum and many other douchenozzle.com/forum_for_word_police_faggots is that, here you dont have admins that loooove their ban hammer and silence all who even let out a faint whisper. If you don't like it, go browse some other forum. There is a mute button for a reason.

Personally I love this forum for that reason. Pretty much the only other forum i go to (besides reddit) is at simtropolis.com, where the mods are a bunch of douchebags who get upset even when you use a**. LMAO. everyone talks like a retard (not because they are, but because if they don't, the big boys will ban 'em), and white lies everywhere, like for example: "oh i like your city...very nicely planned out" when in fact its the ugliest shit I've ever seen.

I admit Krellin at times gets out of hands, and sometimes he says some extremely idiotic shit, but idiotic or not, appropriate or not, its hilarious and adds to forum. If you don't like it, kestas didn't just add a mute button there to improve the feng shui of the site

And plus, seems that you and thucy along with his loverboy mendax loooooove arguing with krellin.

And btw, thucy that is a very well long essay you wrote their on your feelings.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/237/621/c8a.gif

Yes Thucy...you are right, and everyone else is wrong...as always. We get it. You are the Messiah. All would be lost without you, and you and you alone can save us all from our collective guilt. We get it.

So slip on your White Knight gear and hop up on your horse and burn down all those around you that you despise....that is your tactic, isn't it? Kind of sounds like....

@Draugnar "Krelin doesn't necessarily believe everything he says. He is drass and vulgar to make a point and controversial and aggressive to get the folks here going."

This is a cop-out that creates a climate of permission for disgusting behavior. I addressed your point in my long post on page 2:

"And before you say "it's his persona, not really who he is," who gives a shit? He says the words, here, out loud, on this forum accessible to everyone on the globe, there to read. We are members of this forum, and should be ashamed of his behavior, facetious or otherwise. Whatever his internal motivations, his behavior is reprehensible and unacceptable."

What counts is how you act. Not what you think inside your head. What "kind of man you are" only matters to the extent that it affects how you behave. And we have seen how krellin behaves.

@krellin

I am aware of what the OP is. I'm telling you what the current conversation is about. I am interested in what people have to say in regards to forum moderation and I will not have it hijacked by one person. If you feel you've been unjustly criticized or have suggestions about the forum, you are more than welcome to participate.

@ILN

Rather than do this, I would much prefer to decently argue with smart people who have different views than me so as to sharpen my own wit and perhaps synthesize more accurate views in the process.

Does krellin represent that? Not in the slightest. This is why I am asking him to clean up his act. I will continue asking him to until he does, and will ask others to join me.

Go ahead and mute me now if this is going to prove annoying for you.

Thucy...here is your task for the night, pretty boy. Look up:

Hyperbole
Sarcasm

Those two will start you off.

Next, we will move to PARODY and EMULATE.....as in, I'm going to emulate Libtards and make ridiculous statements about them in a parody of their extremist behavior.

For example...."Bi/Gay Males 6x More Likely to Commit Criminal Act"

This was a ridiculous paraody of how Libtards *often* report the news...and the intention of such reporting is to give the willful sheep on the Left the (false) impression that they are so ready to accept.

I did this very thing...and look what happened...a bunch of libtards read **what they wanted to read*** instead of what was actually written.

It worked perfectly. I caught the sheep and the trolls and have been running them through the fields for hours now.

"oscar, since you don't know anything about Putin, you have no idea what evidence I have that he is a rapist. Putin has everything he needs to prove or not prove his rapist credentials, using his logic. I'm waiting for him to answer."

When you accuse someone of rape the burden of proof is not on them but on you. So, if you have evidence then provide it. Otherwise shut up about it.

You don't have evidence though. You just use it as a trolling ploy against Putin who may have made a generalizing remark about Christians (or not, I don't know). If you were not such an immature nitwit you would realize that you can effectively expose a secundum quid fallacy without resorting to continuously accusing someone of rape though. Exposing a secundum quid fallacy is however not at all your motivation for these accusations now is it? That's just a ruse. Your motivation is instead just to insult Putin so you and your buddies can have a laugh at his expense like a pathetic bunch of kindergarten bullies.

@Abge -- I *did* paticiapte, in the very post that you just responded to.

I suggested the YOU gave a view of forum moderation...and then seemingly fell victim to the trolls by ignoring your own advice.

This discussion on forum moderation has been had before.

So I ask - when it comes to implementing a Thucy plan of banning those you disagree with...who's politics will rule the web site? Who's particular flavor of the English language is going to be the "red line"

Ok...shall we ban Assclown? Oh yes, yes, they all say...Assclown is out fo the quesiton./

What about "Stupid"...calling someone stupid can be insulting too...shall that go?

Where will you draw the line once you start drawing them? Must we all subscribe to Thucy's view of gender identity and sexual poltiics? If we disagre with him, will we be banned for not being politically correct?

These discussion have been had...and the smartest of the webdip community mods have consistently failed to clearly define the standard of content....so you are really going to have this discussion again?

krellin, you are a racist, sexist, homophobic asshole. Go away.

Anyone who has an exposed secundum quid fallacy had better get to a doctor ASAP.

@krellin

"Where will you draw the line once you start drawing them? Must we all subscribe to Thucy's view of gender identity and sexual poltiics? If we disagre with him, will we be banned for not being politically correct?"

This is the situation I am trying to avoid with light moderation. However, when a few people think that means they can be the biggest ass possible, I am eventually forced to intervene. You do not help your case by acting like a rabid animal in the very thread we are using to discuss if more moderation is necessary.

@mendax

I will ask you, too, to contribute to the discussion or leave.

More moderation is fine by me. The fact that we're even having this conversation is a net gain.

I also dont mute, and thucy lets clear up things a bit, you earlier said

"Of course we cannot ban the ILNs and Fasces of the world who hold distasteful views"

In what ways are my views distasteful? because i disagree with you? Because I don't hold your views? Because I call you out on your BS?
But let me tell you something, the difference between me and you, is that I challenge peoples opinions, call them idiots (maybe i should do that less though), but at the end of the day, as idiotic as other peoples opinions are, I respect their right to that opinion, because as my fellow human, are entitled to the the same rights. If you call me an idiot, I don't give a shit, maybe at times I will get upset, even more if its someone I know in rl, but otherwise i really don't care.

I don't force my opinions on anyone, and don't want anyone forcing theirs on mines. I believe in a society where i can do whatever I want *as long as i don't infringe anyone else's rights*, and others the same. I don't get why people are so narrow minded, and have a my way or the highway mentality.

Why is that so hard for some to grasp? Why do some insist on forcing others to live in a way that adheres to their morals? For example, I believe abortion is wrong, yet i support allowing women to do so. Because I have no authority over them, even if i think it's wrong.

So why do you insist krellin act in a way that *YOU* want him to?

lol just realized i used a shit load of commas in that. Didn't proof read, it makes me cringe reading all those commas......

Abge - then I apologize. making a note to myself - "rabid animal is bad". I will reflect upon this....perhaps poison my cat and observe her behavior as such to avoid (that ws a joke).

But still..."rabid animal" is...what? And "biggest ass" is...what?

I find Thucy's behavior to be indicative of being 'the biggest ass possible". I find his high and mighty, I-can-do-no-wrong attitude quite assholish. I find the idea that if you disagree with Thucy you are instantly labeled all sorts of horrible and vile things to be examples of behaving as the biggest ass possible. I find Thucy, in short, to be the biggest ass possible with his constant condescension of all around him who disagree with him in the slightest. Is that the forum you want? We must agree or face the wrath of Thucy, and suffer HIS vile and vulgar labels?

You have again put forth a very grey line. And...trust me...if you think *anyone* here is being "the biggest ass possible", I think you give *all* of us too little credit for how truly assholish we can be. Just ask JMO...

I think ILN makes an interesting point: he listens to what he considers the vile idiocy of others, and yet he never calls for them to be silenced. I, too, listen to all sorts of things I consider idocy and never demand that they be silenced.

Why is it that those most likely to call for the authoritarian silencing of others are of a consistent political persuasion...one that claims to be for tolerance and multi-culturalism...and yet is really for enforced uniformity?

I bring this up not as a debate topic...but as a strong consideration when talking about moderating this forum.

Those calling for the silencing of others have a fairly consistent political ideology...so if you want to start limiting speech, then you are, defacto, adhering to the demands of a particular political persuasion...and I don't think that is what was ever intended for these forums.

"So, from a practical standpoint, what would you suggest I do about that?"

Regulate Krellin or stop scolding people for defending themselves. One or the other, as has been said many times. In any case, I was explaining why your strategy of ignoring ugliness doesn't work.

"As I have said, the difference is between what happens within a thread and in an OP. You may believe there shouldn't be such a distinction, but that's a different complaint to have."

You may have said that, but that policy must be new because harassing spam threads have been a fixture here, and this is the only one that has gotten this treatment.

I love it when hate-mongers portray themselves as freedom fighters. To them, 'freedom' simply means having the unfettered right to be abusive without accountability.

@krellin

"You have again put forth a very grey line."

Most people seem to be able to walk that line quite easily. You prefer to live miles past it. I'd suggest you figure out a way to determine what is appropriate and what is not without rules written into stone. If it would help, I can administer some negative reinforcement until you get the hang of it.

@Putin

Yes, it is fairly new. I'll admit that I can't see every thread that is posted. I am not aware of many recent threads that were created solely to harass another member.

Abge - Most people seem to be able to walk it...so this is the Supreme Court pornography ruling? I can't define it, but you know it when you see it?

Again, I will assert that I find Thucy and Putin's constant belittling of others to be offensive - they have no real interest in examining what others say -- they only have an interest in judging and condemning all those that don't walk in lock-step with them. I find that offensive...regardless of their use of...uh...flavorful language.

Oh, sure, I may call people out with a little more <ahem> "flair"...but let's make it clear, there are plenty here who make it a habit to troll these forums and attack people with whom they disagree. Just because they don't call someone an "assclown" doesn't mean that their character attacks are any less real and that **their intention to do personal character harm** isn't real.

In fact, I can make the argument that calling someone "assclown" or making other over-the-top accusation is **less harmful** than these vile accusations that people make with a straight face.

Over the top....is over the top. It's *obvious* that it's a school yard brawl, and should be taken with about as much seriousness as a school yard brawl.

But when the oh-so-dignified Thucy start throwing about his vile accustions and labeling everyone he disagrees with a hater of this that and the other thing, it is in fact more damaging, as he casts his vile accusations with this bogus air of authority and a straight face, even though his accusation are often based upon a very selective reading of the threads.

I'd **much rather* you call me an assclown when you disagree with me, then actually be such an asshole to state such things with a dead serous look.

None of us, in truth, now jack shit about each other, and none has the right to *truly* judge anyone on these forums. Some here represent themselves as they truly are...but I *defy* you to tell me who is actually who 100% who they claim to be, and who is a caricature.

I think the issue is we are dealing with a bunch of people who cannot stand for someone else to have the last word and therefore can't just walk away from a thread.

Would anyone object to some decent rules against slander around here? Putin33 has called me names, I've gone so far to say he "yearns to mewl before authority", but insults aren't slander. I think a line gets crossed when someone alleges that another person has done some horrible thing that he has not done. I reckon getting rid of the slanderous allegations and allowing the insults strikes a good balance between keeping things lively and getting rid of the vindictiveness. Any thoughts?

I don't know Mapu, this is actually a fairly productive thread in that it's letting abge and I understand how everyone views forum moderation, even if we have to read through dozens of insults to find those views.

"Yes, it is fairly new. I'll admit that I can't see every thread that is posted. I am not aware of many recent threads that were created solely to harass another member."

I'll take you at your word. I don't know when this policy was formulated, but I'll at least give you the benefit of the doubt that it's recent enough to explain why so many past spammy/harassing threads have been ignored.