@taylor

Is 36 degrees in Frankfurt unusual? Flooding in the south of England certainly isn't. As far as extreme weather goes nothing in England has come close to the heatwave in the summer of 76 or the great freeze in the winter of 63/64. If either of those events happened today the media would have a field day reporting about climate change and impending doom.

Whilst climate change is happening, the evidence in front of the eyes of the ordinary man is nil.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/20/conservative-groups-1bn-against-climate-change

Heyyyyy Orathaic, how's that Arab Spring thing going? Are we on the brink of a glorious new utopia?

@orathaic What is your point with the conservative funding link?

@ora - As tendmote says... I bet if I could be arsed to waste time looking, I could find that the liberals fund pro climate change research. That doesn't make a difference as to what is or isn't happening. Discuss the science itself. Leave the funding bullshits for the krellin's to bitch about.

Just a few weeks ago you were the one bitching about funding and claiming all climate science was biased.

You can't even hold a consistent position for a single month. It's obnoxious.

@Putin33 Consistency is obnoxious. Only by manifesting inconsistency does one relax their most extreme positions and move toward the center, where tendmote dwells.

Whatever, SillyPutty. I don't generally pay attention to an asshat who thinks the PRNK is the ultimate regime and the best country in the world.

This *thread* isn't about the funding. It's about the science. In a thread about the funding, the link would be perfectly relative and properly placed.

@Draug 'I bet if I could be arsed to waste time looking, I could find that the liberals fund pro climate change research' - i didn't waste time looking, i happen to come across it in my daily jaunt among the inter-nets..

I'm not contributing to this 'debate' because we've had several conversations and my views are largely known. If anyone wants to know they can read 1 of many other threads... The funding issue is part of the reason a 'debate' exists at all.

@Ora - OK. Then finding that link was a happy coincidence. No problem.

But, realistically, reducing the debate to simply a matter of funding is not really true and I suspect you know this. If it were just about funding research, we actually wouldn't give a fuck. There is plenty of other places where money is wasted. It's more about the reaction to the research and the two extremes (either declaring it all bull, which is bull in itself, or going off on a "save the planet" rant which is just as bad).

As has been mentioned by others, if the folks who are so gung-ho on saving the planet would take a less heavy handed approach, we all can agree that reducing what we do to it would be a noble and worthy cause and more people would taker up the mantle. Likewise, if those who rail against it so heavily would curb their rhetoric and look at what could be done without attempting to bankrupt or industries or make wealthy liberals get wealthier (carbon credits anyone?). But the squeakiest wheels get the grease so both sets of extremists scream as loud as they can instead of actually, you know, try to get something done.

"Only by manifesting inconsistency does one relax their most extreme positions and move toward the center, where tendmote dwells."

That made me chuckle.

"As has been mentioned by others, if the folks who are so gung-ho on saving the planet would take a less heavy handed approach"

Put on your big boy pants, you're not going to be mollycoddled.

"But the squeakiest wheels get the grease so both sets of extremists scream as loud as they can instead of actually, you know, try to get something done."

Funny, one week ago you were playing the part of climate change denying extremist. But I guess today is Monday and I guess Monday is pretend-to-be-a-moderate day, with the faux equivalence spin machine running at full speed.

"I don't generally pay attention to an asshat who thinks the PRNK is the ultimate regime and the best country in the world.
"

I know you can't read and are a serial liar, but it's not PRNK, it's DPRK, and I don't think it's the best regime in the world, so go fuck yourself.

@Putin33 "That made me chuckle."

I knew it would. You're the one who clings to your beliefs for consistency's sake to such an extreme that you do end up defending some pretty reprehensible shit. I'm 100% for not confusing theoretical "ideals" with things that can exist in the world. When the voice of reason creates a contradiction with respect to beliefs and ideals... I reckon we should listen to that voice.

^ I should say "common sense" rather than "voice of reason", more accurate. The part of your brain that says "whoa, hang on here." That's an important part that you're anesthetizing, Putin33.

Here's some quotes from Draugnar the "moderate" on climate change, from this very thread a week ago.

"No, it isn't. Climatologists continue to look for lame as reasons why their doom and gloom predictions from forced models designed to return what they want and not tell them the truth are failing miserably."

"Global warming is a myth. It isn't warming up."

"And I *never* trust "universities" and "scientific bodies" to tell me the truth. Liberal bias runs rampant in university communities and it has a pretty strong hold in the scientific community which is looking out for number one and their paycheck aka grant."

"I knew it would. You're the one who clings to your beliefs for consistency's sake to such an extreme that you do end up defending some pretty reprehensible shit."

I found your claim to 'centrism' funny, considering half the time you sound like Michigan Man in your paranoia about government.

And you cannot simultaneously claim I am too idealistic while whining that I support 'reprehensible shit'. I'm not stuck in utopian la-la land insisting on moral purity, like you. I do not make the perfect the enemy of the good, like you.

"That's an important part that you're anesthetizing, Putin33."

Not as important as the part which makes sentences comprehensible.

Once again, Putin can't read. Clikmate change =/= global warming. Cooling is also change. We *are* having change. I've said that numerous times. I've also said there is a debate as to how much is natural and how much is man made, but we *are* having an effect. So try rereading all my posts in this thread and you will see that same mantra repeated several times. I'm not a denier. I'm a denier of the gloom and doom predictions coming out of the liberal biased university machine. Will mankind die off? Sure. all life on this planet presently will die off to be replaced by some other life. Maybe the alligator and crocodile (the closest thing we have to dinosaurs) and sealife will survive in a recognizable form, but it will happen eventually. It is hubris to think we can stop it. But it won't happen in my lifetime (maybe another 50 years if I'm lucky). I do care about the environment. As an ani9mal lover, how can I *not* care? But I don't believe the situation is so dire as to require bankrupting businesses. I also don't believe the situation isn't occurring and we should go own like it isn't happening. There is a middle ground and no statement, when read in full context, that I have made is to the contrary.

Denying warming and claiming climate scientists are manipulating data because of funding is not a moderate position. It might be a moderate position in Hamilton County or CincinniTucky, not anywhere else.

"CincinniTucky"

Ad hominem as usual from SillyPutty. Back to the plonk pile you go.

But warming insn't existing when record *lows* are being set. Colder =/= warmer.

Another fake muting?

"But warming insn't existing when record *lows* are being set. Colder =/= warmer."

Look at the surface temperature graphs, the world is not cooling except in your ridiculous brain.

Somebody explain to me the permafrost and glacier situation in Alaska if the world is "cooling".

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/08/alaska-sinks--climate-change-thaws-permafrost/2794255/

"except in your ridiculous brain. "

More ad hominem from Silly Putty.

More rank hypocrisy from Draugnar, whose every post is a noun, a verb, and an ad hominem attack.

Permafrost has been thawing since the last Ice Age. I guess USA Today forgot that simple little fact.

What? Silly Putty is your cute little nickname. I mean, your real given name isn't Putin33 is it? I know mine isn't Draugnar. At least not on my birth certificate. So Draugma or Silly Putty. Cute little nicknames, but I don't insult you by attacking your intelligence. In fact, in another thread on here just today, I pointed out that even our most extreme members, and used you by name along with Obi and krellin, has a well above average intellect. So hardly insulting of your intellect. But you'd rather continuously ad hominem me and others and make your own arguments weaker in your opponents eyes, than just present your arguments.

The rate of warming in Alaska is twice the rate of everywhere else in the USA. Alaska has warmed 3.4 degrees in the past 50 years. A fact that is apparently lost on warming denying extremists like Draugnar.

So what is so special about Alaska? It's "global warming" not "Alaska Warming" right? You are making your own argument look foolish now.