Frank, you say you read but you ignore our posts.

HE HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR MONTHS, AND HAS BEEN CAUGHT SEVERAL TIMES AND SHOWED NO REMORSE! THEY HAVE TO BAN SOMETIMES.

And there is no way to do that. If Sarg wanted to play other games, he wouldn't have cheated

There are only a few rules. That one is the easiest one to follow in my opinion. It's easy to slip into metagaming every once in awhile, often out of frustration. It's easy to say things you shouldn't say. It's pretty hard to unintentionally multi though.

That said, I unintentionally multi'd when I joined the site. I would be in the second of damian's categories and what FD said, playing for more points rather than in the same game. They contacted me, I owned up it, and they banned the account in question. I don't have any other accounts now, so obviously I figured out what I did wrong. I had no clue that I'd broken a rule because I never read them.

Obviously, Sarg knew he was breaking a rule. He's done it time and time again, like Sandgoose, and they were obviously very lenient with him. He did it one too many times and that's life. If I created another account, they'd ban me too. Pretty simple.

@Frank - Banning Sarg improved the website. You fail.

Excluding the last two words, I wholeheartedly agree ^

I am reading all of your posts, thanks FD. You just seem to want revenge or punitive justice. What benefit does banning him serve, especially since as far as I know he can start another account? If anything, leaving him here would allow you guys to exclude him from games, etc.

I dont play live anymore so I don't know the situation now / havent played with a lot of you but in my opinion Sarg brought much more value to this website site than anyone who has posted in this thread other than PE, abge and damian.

Frank, depending on the type of ban they gave him, his IP may be banned, at which point he can't access the site from the server he previously did. He'd have to try really hard to come back.

Bo_Sox48 says “It's easy to slip into metagaming every once in awhile, often out of frustration. It's easy to say things you shouldn't say. It's pretty hard to unintentionally multi though. That said, I unintentionally multi'd when I joined the site.”

Did you really just admit to cheating on this site?

I would agree that a player can change but obviously this wasn't the case for him. It was stated that he was deceitful and this had gone on for his entire time here. And no, allowing cheaters in live games to only be banned in live games is a terrible idea. It would only encourages others to try it bc what the heck, I can still play long phase games if I get caught....yes he can make a new acct that would be banned as well.

and Czech, sorry.

No, flc, I didn't. I'm saying it happens and people have asked me to metagame with them over and over again. I've reported some, others have immediately asked me to forget it ever happened.

And yes, the multi thing happened, I've made it public before, and it was resolved a long time ago. It's past me.

fic, bo has you muted, he can't see you.

and Frank, so what you say is there should be no bannings whatsoever?

oh, bo unmuted you, nvm :p

Thanks Frank, I'm flattered that you think that highly of me.

If his IP is banned, and what he said in the World Cup thread is true. He moves around the world a lot. Switching IP's wouldn't be a big deal for him.

@flc, he admitted to having made a mistake when he joined, a mistake that he already owned up to and for which he was already punished accordingly. What's the problem?

Thanks for being my personal secretary, FD.

anytime bo, anytime

I support banning of multis when the person behind the multis brings no value to the site in terms of Diplomacy. So, if they only play live games and they usually cheat in those, then sure ban them. But if they also play longer phase games, help organize top flight series of games, post about strategy and tactics, participate in EOGs, then no I dont think a ban is appropriate. Because it doesn't benefit the community.

My point is saying that is that anyone can make a mistake, but that the mods understand that and will also allow you to repair that mistake if you cooperate. The police might pull you over, but if you don't run from them, it's not a big deal in the long term. Same thing.

Thanks frank a multi who has no respect for site rules is worth more than site mods who make this a place worth playing on, not to mention all the people who actually play by the rules you are completely right.

And Frank, based on my experience, the game comes first on this site. Community is nice, but vDip hardly has any community at all compared to this one and it is just as fine a site as any.

And who is to be the judge of value? Even noobs bring value by being so noobish we all laugh at them

in that game, I am IMMUNE TO BANNINGS HELL YES! TIME FOR A FORTRESS DOOR 2 ACCOUNT!

Here's an example of what I mean: there is a guy here who posts a ton on the forum. He is very smart but pretty controversial. He also resigns a huge proportion of games he plays and never apologizes or admits fault. This player brings a huge negative value to the site: he ruins a ton of games (more than sarg ever did) and never contributes anything in terms of diplomacy. This player isn't technically a cheater but he deserves to be banned more than Sarg because he makes the site worse not better.

Very utilitarian of you, Frank. I'd have to disagree. No one is above the law, whether it's on a scale as grand as Watergate or one so small as this. His status and achievements are irrelevant.

so now banning is a popularity contest. As much I would love to see some people banned here, they haven't broken any rules and do not deserve it.

@seth: I know you are being sarcastic but yes I agree. Sarg has contributed to my (and many others') enjoyment of this website more than, say, jmo or zultar.

Like Jets said, nobody is above the rules. If one of the top players breaks rules, they are punished.

I think it would be worthwhile to discuss banning people who habitually CD. We will not, however, discuss whether habitual cheaters should be banned.

And I must say, bashing the mods while also trying to appeal to them is probably not helping your case.

Lol Another loud mouthed asshole gone. Hate me, but at least I'm not a multi.