And...

Yeah, I'll take folks being happy and united, even if it's just for a fleeting moment, over the usual ugliness and pettiness that is usually the default position of people.

I know! CRAZY, me preferring folks to be happy and united rather than divided and petty, even if it's for just a moment, preferring relief and happiness over cynicism is just absurd, I mean, who wants THAT?!

Obiwon - whats a khaver? I can't find a definition online.

How anyone can consider the death of Osama anything but a good thing is just weird. USA!!! USA!!! :P

And in any case...

Well, your name sake, Santa--kids get joy from believing Santa's real...

Why spoil their good time when they're young?

Why be so quick to point out--rightly--that tomorrow there will still be terrorists, and troubles, and division, and all of that?

Let the grief-stricken people of New York and D.C. and America have their fairytale ending for the moment, even if it's not entirely true...the truth is overrated, anyway, if we really cared about things being perfectly true, well, our best fiction writers would have been out of a job long ago (some might extend that to include the writers of the Bible and Koran.)

Human beings desire the grandiose, the meta-human experience, something larger than themselves because, truth be tld, human beings are, by the sheer nuts and bolts of their existence, little more at their start than pieces of carbon strung together on a tiny blue dot in a tiny solar system in one of an untold number of galaxies...

Thet need to feel that things matter, that THEY matter--and sometimes, the only way to do that is through a letting them feel the thrill of the grandiose and poetic, even if the reality doesn't match that.



The people of America WANT to believe "Justice has been served."
They want to believe there IS such a thing as "justice."
They want to believe there's an order to things, that 9/11 wasn't just random.
And they want to believe that with Bin Laden's death, "the order of things" is restored.

Let them have their moment and their belief.

History will look back and be truer to events, just as we now look back more critically on the 1950s when, at the time, it was treated as the greatest time in world history.

Just like with Santa Claus, we'll grow out of this celebratory stage.

But for now, let them have the moment they've wanted for so long.

@fielder:

It means "friend" in Yiddish, but I'm using the version I learned, with k's, whereas most forms of it in the West use c's (case in point, "Channukah," you don't generally see "Khannukah," but technically, if you were a Jew in Eastern Europe when Yiddish was spoken, you could and might have used the K, the same way Russian-area nations often have "Kathryn" instead of "Catherine," which is more Western.)

http://74.6.117.48/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=chaver+yiddish+definition&fr=chr-yie9&rs=0&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=chaver+yiddish+definition&d=5064509663151624&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=4 671583,fb6af373&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=ZalpeCTgv4DzMwz2BBfh5g--

Better yet:

http://yiddishdictionaryonline.com/

K, danke :)

Oi, what a maven our little obiwanobiwan is becoming!

One thing I hate about western media is how black and white it perceives the world. When we look at Osama Bin Laden we should acknowledge that he killed thousands of people, but we should also ask why he did so.

Al Qaeda was an organization that killed mass people in an act of terrorism to further there agenda, however we must be reminded that it was caused because its members saw no other way of fighting.

To all you Irish, the IRA does almost Identical terrorist attacks but on a smaller scale to al Qaeda, but I bet most of you can see justification of it because it won you your independence.

The American revolution started with similar routes. Yet every single American can probably say the terrorism Washington committed was justified because it won you your independence.

Well what is al Qaeda fighting against? American puppet states, America has a long history of creating wars and uprisings in the middle east to further their political agenda on the world stage and attempt to create stable puppet governments.

al Qaeda is one of the many organisations with the intention of ridding America from the Middle East. They, like the American or Irish rebels, could not face their opponent face on without assured destruction, so do so tactically, only engaging where they can win.

I have recently become appalled at western media for its poor attempts at trying to create a black and white world.

The fact is if there was no merit in what al Qaeda was doing, then nobody would be willing to die for it.

Please note, I do not support al Qaeda, I just simple acknowledge that it isn't as evil as it is portrayed.

Osama's death was not a murder. The 3,000 lives that were snuffed out on 9/11 was a murder.

As a Kantian retributivist I believe that the only just punishment for murder is execution, and while we shouldn't gloat over it I'm glad it finally happened.

@Fasces - While I can see where you are coming from, I feel it necessary to point out one difference between AQ and the American revolutionaries... Besides scale, which you touched on, I don't believe the revolutionaries *ever* attacked a civilian population in England. In fact, I don't believe they ever knowingly attacked a civilian population nor did they use civilians as weapons. On this, your analogy fails.

You know what the tragic thing is?

The fact that the swift death of a murderer of thousands, who would would gladly have killed many more through the use of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons if he had access to them, is mourned/found tragic/condemned/objected to by anyone in the west. It can almost be compared to a Jew mourning the injustice of the defeat and death of Hitler, though the Jews didn't get the satisfaction of killing Hitler themselves.

American's should take the time to mourn and remember the people lost on 9/11 and those lost in Afghanistan and Iraq and around the world fighting terrorism. It is a somber day of victory, and for some, dare I say celebration, in America, even if it's not the end of the fight. The fight for truth and against evil goes on despite the clouded vision and denials of the moral relativists and transhumanists.

And Fasces, just because many people are doing something doesn't give it merit for Christ's sake. God help this country!

Somehow here on Webdip, we still find a way to be divided even over a somber victory such as this..

To those of you who care, remember those you know who have died in the fight against terrorism, whether on 9/11 or after.
To the rest of you, shame on you for dishonoring their memory.

Well said, Lief.

Draugnar: Go look up John Paul Jones's raid on Whitehaven.

"The sentence was death."

What death sentences are carried out outside of legal custody? Anyway your line that this was a legal execution contradicts your line that it was a military operation. And point to where other heads of state could even legally sentence someone to death, capital punishment is banned in most of the civilized world.

I'm not seeing this as black and white, Fasces...

Yes, I can see where some might call him a freedom fighter where we call him the worst terrorist of all time.

But in the same way I'm pretty sure Russia and England wouldn't be so quick to honor Napoleon as maybe France would have, back in his day, the fact I'm on the side Osama wanted erradicated means...

Yes, I'm pretty happy he's dead. ;)

"moral relativists and transhumanists. "

I think you use moral relativist like you use "penultimate" - you don't know what it means. Only a moral relativist like Obi & friends could simultaneously moralize about 9-11 while apologizing for American war crimes.

New Concept: I want to see the **body**. The story on the news is that he was killed in action, his body was taken, and immediately buried at sea. Uh....AT SEA? Seriously? I'm not a huge conspiracy theory guy...but something stinks about this. We made an attack into a sovereign foreign nation in which we already have a rocky relationship (yes...*another* sovereign nation has been invaded...) We blew up a bunch of stuff and do nothing to prove to the world that our action was justified. It is simply not believable that our government would dump the body like a fucking mob hit.

OK....*not* serious about this...but does anyone find it odd that, after the Donald Trump public scuffle, wherein Trump forced Obama to release his birth certificate, Obama manages to interrupt the last 15 minutes of a big night of Celebrity Apprentice, making the news media claim they have killed the most notorious man in the world...'cept they dumped the body and can't prove it? Obama's poll numbers have been plummeting, he was publicly humiliated by Trump...and suddenly this unprovable successful anti-terrorism victory? Bahhh...I smell a rat...

@Jack - Whitehaven was 1778. I believe we were officially at war at that time *and* JPJ condemned his crews actions and said his senior officers were of poor quality in letting the crew commit the acts they did. The officers and crew weren't about honor, but about personal gain and he abhorred that.

But the point still stands that the US had been established in the signing of the Declaration of Independence and we were officially at war by the time that happened. JPJ's raid was not a first strike.

@Putin - Considering I don't think it has actually happened any how and won't until I see at least some photographic evidence (how convenient he was "buried at sea" within hours of his death), it is a rather moot point. But if I do see the evidence, it was an authroized military operation against a military compound and he was a military combatant, same as any other soldier be they enlisted or officer.

Transferring that comment about "penultimate" to this thread was a low blow. I will gladly take all manner of insult in that thread as it was a rather hilarious mistake (and completely unintended as I do know the meaning..)

FYI, if you read my response in the other post.. (and feel free to check the posting time stamps) I had a copy paste error from something I intended to say in a different post, but didn't. Now I wish I had.

As for moral relativism, I am referring to the fact that Fasces seems to allow some moral credibility to Al Queda's position. Killing innocent people has moral validity because a number of people are doing it?

Yes, this whole thing was just done because Donald Trump is the center of the known universe. Wow Krellin, I didn't even think you were this dumb.

By the way....regarding the attack into Pakistan: Obama spent a bit of time in his youth in India, which has damned near gone to war with Pakistan how many times? I think Obama gets a little hard on every time he gets to kill people and blow shit up in Pakistan...

@Putin -- You are such a fucktard. If you can't, for one God damned second, grasp the idea of humor then you truly are a pathetic loser of a human being. I *knew* that would get under your skin. Damn your a a jackass!

No meta-threading, Putin33.

"Obama spent a bit of time in his youth in India, which has damned near gone to war with Pakistan how many times?"

Obama spoke openly of wanting to visit Pakistan and the greatness of the Urdu poets during the campaign season. The notion that he's anti-Pakistan is one of the more absurd things you've ever said.

"f you can't, for one God damned second, grasp the idea of humor then you truly are a pathetic loser of a human bein"

The point of humor is to say something that would be ironic or unrealistic. You making those comments sounded perfectly in character for you.

@Putin -- again...Putin...for God's sake....I'm ***JOKING***. You such a fucktard. Get your head out of your ass for a minute...just a minute so you can get some fresh air...and GRASP the concept of humor. If you ca't see the irony behind a kid growing up in India having the opportunity to blow shit up in Pakistan, and can't grasp that nutjob Conspiracy theorists will have a hayday on this shit, then you are perhaps too stupid to be on these forums. But it is pretty hilarious *exactly*( how easy it is to throw fucktards like you off your game and get your undies in a bunch.