Ag, I totally see your point here, but didn't Draug have 10+ centres? Not exactly a small power then was he?

Well, one can just sum it up into: Never become a small power. Under either PPSC or WTA , there exist a strong bias towards eliminating the little guys, rihgt?

@ ag, i think you got it wrong... you need to review this game... I agree that when he was at 2 he had no reason to try for a draw (like in our game - where by the way, i'm next on the menu as Akroma and you predicted)... no one is claiming that... but when he got to 4 or 5, he HAD a shot at the draw and he did not take it. go review the game and you'll see him build armies and keep going after italy for NO reason...

@rumley and Gallalo - as for the fun thing... if you are into fun for fun's sake, go play some backgammon on yahoo! games... this is DIPLOMACY... its a site devoted to a game where the FUN is derived from winning... and if not winning, then NOT losing. so if you cant get the RULES and POINT of the game through your thick skull (ie Draugnar) then GET LOST!!!!! that's my point and I'm sticking to it no matter how many of you johnny-come-latelys want to call me names.

indeed rumley best understood the point of this thread... "Draugnar is an ass-hat" and I wanted to shout it from the rooftops... next week, it'll be someone else, maybe one of you who'll be doing the shouting. one of these days, he'll either wise up or actually get lost just as we are finally rid of diplomat (ask the older members if you dont know about him).

so yes, i have conceded that i lost my temper (and am in the midst of doing it again), but I dont suffer buffoons too well, so sue me. (call it my FUN - to call out idiots when I see them).


and if this was someone other than Draugnar, I would not have reacted THIS passionately - i would have probably made a point about the merits of going for the draw when the option clearly exists over a 'good' survive in a WTA game... engendered a measured and hopefully edifying conversation regarding said matter, then called it a day. BUT... the fact is this blithering sack-of-month-old-potatoes went on and on about this game in a previous thread pretending HE was not russia - then went to the silly-but-easy "i'm in it for the fun" defense.

Hence the extra spicy dash of SCREW YOU I had to dish up in this here thread.


Those who have been in games with me know that I very rarely get emotional or angry. when stabbed, I accept it and often congradulate the stabber... when a player makes a great come-back, even at my expense, I recognize their great play (particularly if its at my expense, it probably was grat play =P j/k), so its absolutely not a matter of sour grapes or being upset that i didnt win or he cost me the draw... in fact, this game should have ended in a 3-way French/Russian/Italian draw that excluded me (England)... I have no qualms or pretensions about this particular game... BUT when it comes to not only poor play... but POOR FORM... that pisses me off... because it makes this site LESS OF A PLACE TO PLAY THE GAME I LOVE!!!

Centurian is damn right... if even a tenth of the people on this site were making decisions based on the silly reasoning that Draugnar used in THIS game, then this site would be a horrible place to play the game of Diplomacy.

and THAT is not a price I'm willing to pay just because some lame ass-hat wants to have "Fun".

Fuck You, Babak! Go back to licking your mom's pussy and fucking your dad's ass while your sister fucks you with a strap-on.

i rest my case.

If I would have loaded this page from work, the language could be flagged to IT, and there's the potential that the site could be banned.

Can the uncouth language be deleted please??

No. This is an open forum and doesn't require mod approvals for postings. Kestas clearly wants it that way or he would have written code to keep it fully moderated with postings being approved and language filters in place. I believe the mods have stated in the past that they will not do anything about this. I'm sorry if you may get banned at work, but I have as much right to post a tirade to an asshole like Babak who would presume to tell me how to run my nation and berate me in public as he had to do the berating.

I'd actually support censorship in extreme cases, like what Draugnar said above, but I don't support it as a policy.

Actually, I'm going to change that. Hows this for a policy: Censorship of all of Draugnar's posts, so we don't have to listen to him whine and complain...

@rlumley - I think I hear your grandma calling. She has her whip in hand and dildo strapped on. You better go take all 13 inches of it or she won't feed you any of the dog shit you love so much.

Draugnar where do you get these insults from??? They are truly disgusting but they make me laugh.

I'm gonna use this thread, and I wish I had Draugnar's language skills for this one, as I think I'm just playing a game with the most complete asshole on this site - Onar - he's Italy in http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=12186

He has been trying to give the game to GER for about 10 turns now, in a WTA game. I'll not go into communication details, they are despicable to say the least.

I am sorry if this is ugly, but the only reasonable approach in this cases is to avoid these people and not play with them at all.

Maybe we should have a public black-list, so that people are warned in advance or something?

Who would administer such a black list? What if you backstabbed someone in a game, and they were so annoyed (even though such a backstab is a legit move) that they put your name on the black list?

The reason we can't have a blacklist is that individual users' views on who they like and don't like are too subjective and pretty soon everyone would be put on the blacklist, either legitimately, due to misunderstandings, or through people being trolls.

BTW are you actually suggesting Onar is cheating, or what? If you are, report him to the mods.

Ivo, I don't think discussing an ongoing game on the forum is appropriate. you have a right to your opinion, but bringing a current game to the forums to complain about it is not right. and i don't think it was right when babak did it, either, for the record. though at least he didn't post the link. it seems we're losing a lot of civility around here lately, and that is making me a bit sad. it's painful to read the forum today, i hope we can get back to being civil again sometime soon.

Just don't call the blacklist a "Blacklist"; instead call it "Players who like losing"

I don't care who'll maintain it.

But I think I can get everyone else in this game to confirm Onar should be on this list though, that should be a good criteria for a 'nomination'?

He's not cheating. I think if he was cheating I would be less pissed - at least there will be a valid reason for his actions. I have no idea what he's doing - he refused to respond that that question at all.

@ DJ - I usually don't discuss ongoing games - but I see absolutely no reason to wait in this case. The game is all but over after all, and whatever happens from now on will not change the fact that Onar is behaving like a jerk, wouldn't you agree? :)

I have my own private blacklist... but publishing it would be kind of foolish.

Babak, you are a dictator, the kind of people that go crazy when somebody doesn't act like they want, and you are viciously obsessed with this.

As long as people play following the rulebook, you are nobody to impose your views on them, don't play with him if you don't like his revenging style, but don't tell us all that we are idiots if we accept that other people have freedom of motivations while playing.

Have you read the rulebook actually? :)

This is a game with 7 people in it. All have to do their part to make the game a sensible and fun experience. Can you explain me what is your motivation for playing if, obviously, doing well in the game is not good enough to your criteria? :)

Because I've notices a strange coincidence - every time someone says they have their own 'goals and motivation' they have problem actually formulating these at all when asked to do so.

And "I'm an idiot, I'm happy to stay one, I have my motives, just don't call me an idiot" is not good enough an explanation, sorry.

Yes, I've read the rulebook and I like this game as much as anybody else.

I also get pissed when somebody stabs me without an apparent reason, but I understand revenge is present in the game. And if they've played legally (multi-accounting is my main concern) what can I say? I had bad luck.

This game is, more or less, about fighting 6 other people to win, and people have human reactions, we can't expect to always share or understand them, but they are the main part of the game, that's why we prefer to play against humans and not bots and that's why this game doesn't need the randomness of a dice.

BTW, this was not necessary, Ivo: "And "I'm an idiot, I'm happy to stay one, I have my motives, just don't call me an idiot" is not good enough an explanation, sorry."

@Gallando
You clearly have not played enough games to know what we're talking about. This is not a matter of stabbing or revenge at all. At least look at the game links and read the post before giving irrelevant advice to others :)

And I think you use the word 'human' too loosely :)

I was not talking about you at all... when did you get to be the center of the universe here?

Ivo, I'm talking about Babak's complaint, not yours. And please quit making dumb assumptions.

@Gallando

Maybe you should stop giving basic lectures to someone who's played 40 times more games in here. Hence the assumptions. Your telling me "this is a game where you play against 6 other people and it's not nice if they stab you, but you should not get angry"...

Really??? Bravo! I did not know this. What response do you expect :)

Your 40x Majesty, if you think the number of games you've played gives you the right to decide how people must and must not behave just to please you, what response do you expect :)

Any kind of strategies, even suicidal/destructive ones, happen, if you want to ban them, create your own rulebook, and meanwhile come back to earth, your highness

Ok, look, I don't know how this turned into an argument between is...

1. This issue has been discussed a lot of times here. You have missed a lot of these discussions as you joined recently. You've also not played so many games here to know the community and it's problems. Experience matters, you should be able to realize this?
2. What me, Babak, and other people are complaining about has nothing to do with normal play, stabbing, etc. Good for you if you haven't had such problems yet, but to assume you know what we're talking about in this situation is... a bit presumptuous.
3. Noone is talking about banning here? Where did this come from? Another assumption? :)
4. Noone expects people to not attack him or to behave in some specific way. I just want people to play in a way that has at least some reason to it. If this is missing the whole game is usually ruined. I don't want these people banned or put in jail, I just don't want to play with them, and most other people here would also avoid them if they knew what's coming.
5. You've put yourself in a position to defend some people that you clearly have not played with and have no idea what we're complaining about... why?

So, sorry for the harsh welcome to the forum, but you showed total disrespect to anyone else on this threat, as you clearly did not read the previous posts to check what exactly the issue is, and just started giving "let's make love and not war"- type advice.

And, while I appreciate the zen approach in general, how would you feel if you saw someone on the street beating up a small kid, got involved to stop the asshole, and then someone showed up to lecture you about how bad violence can be...

If you're defending assholes you'll get the same treatment, sorry.

As to the sarcasm and the 'highness' thing... ok, good to have you stand your ground for the principle. Next step would be to maybe admit when you're wrong, or at least stop arguing when you don't know what the subject is :)

I won't answer more, just out of boredom of the argument. Just to point 5. to say that I've studied the game that Babak complained about and from there comes my position.
Regards :)

@Ivo:

1. You assume everyone plays rational and for his or her own gain. This doesn't have to be true, tho I can imagine it pisses you off. However, a great part of diplomacy is influencing others in such a way they help you thinking they help themselves. Calling names in global and/or the forum will certainly not help.

2. Being an 'elder' member of this site you should know discussing an ongoing game is generally not done.