Well, to be fair, all of those things involve money, just not your own personal money

Exactly. Do you know how hard it actually is to make fabric, let alone clothing?

You're basically a parasite on society. I hope you're not on welfare, cause that would make you a hypocrite too.

You don't seem to be one of those crazy drug addict homeless, so I guess there's no real harm. I would like to see how you look back on these times forty years from now, though.

a parasite on society? how so?

valoishapsburg in what way do ALL of those things involve money?

No, it is not a free good, it is an economic good.
Some resources (e.g. human resources: food factory workers; man-made resources: machines) have been used to produce the goods, such as your 'free food'. The option of using the resources to provide other goods is given up. The concept of opportunity cost is involved.
For economic goods, the quantity available is not enough to satisfy all wants. More is preferred.

HKCE answer to such questions about free goods and economic goods. It is quite obvious that you are consuming economic goods but not providing service to the community. You are a PARASITE. You work little for the benefits of society. At least I study hard.

so do I.
my food comes from the trash. I'm saving landfill space =]

so your saying you reading books benefits society as a whole?

hey - side note here - maybe Sioraf can verify ... Ireland is the wealthiest nation by far on a per person basis ...

That's right.

anyone else wanna bite - c'mon I promise there's a funny punch line

ok fine - it was just a joke I heard on the radio today

Ireland is the wealthiest country in the world ...

... Their Capital has been doublin' for hundreds of years!

I misspoke, obviously Streams and Rivers are free. That is of course their not in some park which has a fee, but there are ways to get around that.

The other things involve money, either directly or indirectly.

Sicarius: Of course it does. It prepares me for decades of contribution towards society.
While you are not helping at all...the world would be better without you, you siphon resources from the really needy in Africa and Asia etc.

first of all, where I get my resources has no bearing on my contribution to society. even if I did nothing I would be more valuable than you, as I dont help to pollute the air or water, I dont contribute to slave labor or exploitation or deforestation or any of the countless things your way of life reaches into and destroys. you are the parasite my friend, no better than a tick or a leech.
But I do alot to benefit society. this month alone I helped set up a community garden, a free glove/hat/jacket/blanket giveaway to people who have to sleep outside (or just anybody) got flagstaff food not bombs going, kept a free bike collective form going under singlehandedly, walked several children home from school for a week so they werent kidnapped by ICE, educated IV drug users about disease and safe use, organized 2 community potlucks, helped (only a little) to set up a monthly really really free market here in flag, turned a run down eyesore into a functioning (if illegal) free hostel, (which has, just in the past month, housed 27 travelers and 11 permanent or semi permanent residents) written an article for an as of yet unreleased zine, set up a pirate radio station that broadcasts news and pertinent information that mainstream media (AKA the 4th branch) left out, and thats just the stuff I feel comfortable listing on a public website.

also let me point out the ridiculousness of your last sentence.
I siphon resources form Africa? right because all the food I got out of the safeway dumpster today was going to feed starving black children, it certainly wasnt going to a landfill to rot. I mean, you might think that all the food in the trash was going to be buried and wasted, but what really happens is the magical capitalism fairy spirits it away into the night to distribute to hungry needy people all over the world. right? wrong you dumbass, I'm taking food that would otherwise feed only roaches and maggots.

And by the way I dont know where you learned economics, but once a good is thrown into the trash, it is recognized to have NO value. thats why its in the trash in the first place. regardless of what it took to produce, it has no value to a capitalist society once its in the garbage. I take these goods that have no value to you, and would otherwise similarly end up buried under tons of garbage, and use them.


So while your reading your books and studying to become a lawyer or doctor or engineer, realize that no matter what you will become (unless you're reading say, wilderness survival books) you will contribute to a culture of consumption that is completely unsustainable and will ultimately lead to a collapse of civilization. great job. bravo.
you cant take more than what you give back forever and expect it not to come back to bite you in the ass, a five year old knows that, why dont you? Guess those books arnt doing you much good.

Also, yes invictus I'm aware of the difficulty in making clothes, I've made them before.

very very hard.

"So while your reading your books and studying to become a lawyer or doctor or engineer, realize that no matter what you will become (unless you're reading say, wilderness survival books) you will contribute to a culture of consumption that is completely unsustainable and will ultimately lead to a collapse of civilization."

That IS civilization. Would you rather we all run naked through the woods like a bunch of savages?

unsustainable, destructiveness is civilization?
if so then I would rather be naked in the woods.

thats where we'll all be anyway if something isnt done about consumption.

What is sustainability? You want high infant mortality and tedious labor? You want inefficiency and poverty? Go ahead.

And what about the dentist?

Poverty is relative.
besides you cant say a primitive society is poorer than this one. in number of cars maybe, but in leisure time? in cradle to the grave security? in food? primitive society wins hands down on those.

anyway thats not the point. the point is, no matter what you think of the current civilization, good or bad, it's not gonna last.

Well, you're wrong. People don't want to live the way you do, and they won't.

they wont have a choice man. the earth cannot sustain the current population. if you take and take and take and dont give back what happens?
do you know or should I find a first grader to tell you what you obviously cannot figure out for yourself.

do you have any idea how radically this civilization would have to change and how soon to become sustainable? it's not gonna happen.

oh and how is "well you're wrong" in any way a legitimate argument?

Dude, there will be a way. A hundred years ago agriculture couldn't support the population we have today. There will be inventions and new processes when they're needed.

Again, you are just wrong. You just have an ass-backwards way of looking at life.

oh and to answer your question sustainability is the noun of the word 'sustain' which basically means to maintain, to supply with necessities, to keep in existence

there will be inventions when they're needed?
where are those coming from? the idea fairy? are you just going to reach up your ass and save the world?
I'm not saying it's impossible that some invention will prolong civilization for longer, some way to increase food production, I'm just saying it's not probable to rely on something so completely that 'might' happen.

ok let me get this straight. we're killing the planet, and ourselves because we have too much technology. you're solution is to get more technology?

hey invictus you wanna try something?
I want you to read a book
in return you may assign me a book to read. how does that sound, would you be willing to do that?

Yeah. You see, I can't change your mind because you're so absurdly prejudiced against the free market. Everything that has advanced society has come from people discovering something new and useful and making money off it.

So you say you want less technology. Then get off the computer. Throw out all your music. Don't go to the doctor. Don't ride in a car. Only eat crappy organic food and start a farm where you can slaughter the animals yourself. Throw out your clothes and wear a burlap sack. Shave with a straight razor. If you have kids someday, let your wife give birth without any pain killers and your child do without proper care. Go dance around the totem pole on Samhain and worship Ba'al.

Go ahead. We'll see how much you hate civilization then.

I read a lot. I read Kafka for fun. Don't say I don't read.

the point isnt about how I feel about civilization, which you have gotten wrong.
the point is the way were living is unsustainable. i.e. it doesnt work. and unless something is done no one will be able to have computers or cars or ipods or mtv or frozen pizzas.

I wasnt implying you dont read. I want you to read a certain book.
it's called endgame by derrick jensen.
I didnt think you would read a book just because I said you should, so I offered to read a book of your choice in return

yes? no?