https://www.google.com/amp/www.ajc.com/news/national/michael-flynn-testify-that-candidate-trump-told-him-make-contact-with-russia/6PFF0VtVR2QLTjaAEAYx6J/amp.html

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. The strip club would oppose another out of business competition concerns, but might welcome another since like businesses often support each other

A church opposes it because of moralizing. The church isn't a "community focus" at all for the strip club owners patrons or workers, so a church can only be a "community focus" if you define "the community" as excluding the non religious and the sex positive. And that exclusionary moralizing impulse is precisely why churches are objectionable if you aren't part of their favored group (e.g., gay, atheist, empowered woman).

(And before you start on this "they're conplaining about exploiting women or workers" nonsens, remember that churches remain bastions form the oppression of women and don't give two shits about workers in any other context.

I'll give you one thing, Oggy, you've never been one to try and hide your ignorance and prejudice.

You are taking a very woolly view of objectionable, I have to say. Let's look at it from a pragmatic viewpoint relevant to the quote, and define objectionable as legitimate grounds to object to a new installation.

With the strip club: Late night opening, noise pollution, alcohol sales, increased traffic flow, sensitive receptors (schools, residential areas nearby etc), previous mismanagement/ regulations breeches etc etc

With the church: Noisy bells?

There is also a right to worship but no right to a strip show.

So, from an objectionable view point there are many ways of objecting to one and pretty much no way of objecting to the other.

It is like pointing out that far more mosquitoes are swatted by people than people are swatted by mosquitoes, and arguing that this is grounds for believing that mosquitoes have a very liberal live and let live philosophy when it comes to interspecies relations. It is a nonsense.

I have to say Ocopups, you have never been shy about hiding your ignorance and blindspots.

A strip clup doesn't necessarily have any of those things and isn't any different than any other business or development. Building houses involves noise pollution, traffice, sesitive receptors, etc. "Previous mismanagement?" WTF are you talking about. Churches certain breach regulations.

Long story short, Churches don't jump into those issues on ANY OTHER kind of project or business with the identical impacts, so the notion that they're concerned with those impacts is essentially a lie. Do they oppose grocery stores (which also stay open late, have lights, sell alcohol?) No.

And objectionable impacts of churches? How about violence against LGBT people, noisy protestors at abortion clinics, terrorism, etc. etc? Yeah, if you think that the rights of non-Chirstians are to be ignored (as you just did in your definition of community above), then that's a non-issue that churches are at the heart to force some people into second class status. When strippers start protesting churches or shooting them up, then we can talk about how equivalent they are.

And actaully, there's a right to strip clubs in the US, as has been thoroughly litigated in under the First Amendment, in fact the same one that protects the right to worship. However, thanks for demonstrating once again that the religious are always seeking special rights and to be "more equal" than everyone else. They want to discriminate against others, but howl if others decline to follow their religious strictures.

So, yeah, there's both hypocrisy at work here in the selective targeting and complete blindness about the impacts of churches on you view as second class citizens. Gotta hand it to you for being a great example of the kind of arrogance and entitled attitude that is the issue

(And funny how bells don't get complaints, but Muslim calls to prayer do. )

Frankly, if we can put the fundamental rights of LGBT people up for a vote or "need to have a debate" about whether gays can be parents or whether atheists are human, then we ought to be able to have a debate about whether religious people are fit to be parents or should have full rights. It's the flip side of the Golden Rule: You can't really complain if people want to treat you the way you treat others.

(Funny how Oggy will completely invent instances of discrimination to rage against, even when they are easily disproved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-42086315

Complaints about church bells are actually quite common)

As amusing as watching your blind adherence to your philosophy in the face of all evidence to the contrary is, Oggy, I'm going to leave it there. I think it's run it's course :)

"With the strip club: Late night opening, noise pollution, alcohol sales, increased traffic flow, sensitive receptors (schools, residential areas nearby etc), previous mismanagement/ regulations breeches etc etc"

You could make the same complaints about some churches except they give the alcohol away for free under the name of religious practices. With all the proven instances of child sexual abuse by priests you could have even greater concerns about their being in neighborhoods with children and near schools.

Way to completely ignore any and all evidence of any discrimination against LGBT people or the non-religious.

I think your privilege is showing. I think you've pretty much shown the arrogance superior attitude.

If there's no evidence, consider this course material, authoried by the child molester who is about to be elected to the Senate:
https://www.amazon.com/Law-Government-Introductory-Study-Course/dp/193746007X

Note the empahsis on heterosupremacy, male supremacy, and violence against children.

Sure, go ahead and pretend this doesn't exist at all. Go ahead and ignore the lived experiences of those who are being oppressed as "invented"

Unfuckingbelievable, really. I always have a hard time believing that people can be that cruel and that willfully ignorant, and then I run into theocrats like Octopups.

I guess you think that sexism and racism are wholly imaginary too?

Let me gues: you're a straight, white male.





“Reconstructionists believe that there are three main areas of governance: family government, church government, and civil government. Under God's covenant, the nuclear family is the basic unit. The husband is the head of the family, and wife and children are "in submission" to him. In turn, the husband "submits" to Jesus and to God's laws as detailed in the Old Testament. The church has its own ecclesiastical structure and governance. Civil government exists to implement God's laws. All three institutions are under Biblical Law, the implementation of which is called "theonomy."


“Wherein, the example of the rebellious youth, and so forth, there has been some sort of a breakdown here, very serious, the family’s — this is a situation where the family actually invites the magistrates to step forward and judge in this matter. We cannot control this child. He’s out of control. You come and judge this. Because that situation — there is a circumstance not where the son is brought forward to be executed, but to be brought to judgment. And then they will investigate the circumstances and apply remedies that might be necessary. And so, therefore, they could apply — many other remedies, than stoning, could be applied here.

So, there’s been a breakdown in the family government — but what that does teach us, though, is the other institutions should be humble enough, in the circumstances, to recognize they need help. There’s been a breakdown within our government, within our authority here, and we need you to step in and help. Which one you would appeal to would seem, to me, to be mostly church and family type things ; the state was, is such unique and limited authority. It’s rarely ever the solution to the circumstances. However, it may be, in a situation of total anarchy.”

I think that Octo does a great job of demostrating the fascistic tendencies of teh religious who believe themselves superior to all other people and any complaints about their arrogance must be imaginary since of course the religious are infallible.

I'll be sure to pass that along at the next funeral for a murdered trans youth or a gay kid who has been hounded into committing suicide.

Can any thinking human being fail to understand why churches generate a lot of rage and reaction?

@ Randomizer

You can object on literally any issue you want, but a local authority will only give weight those it considers legitimate. Against a strip club they could easily be considered so, against a church.... do you honestly think so? Really?

Lol! Forgive me, Oggy. I'd forgotten you had a doctorate in 21st century fascism and that you yourself have been executed for being an atheist by religious zealots on no less than two occasions. I bow down to your superior education and experience :p.

Frankly, discussing the oppression by the religious is pretty reminiscent of discussing race with white supremacists. All we hear about it how bloody oppressed white people are.

But being a religious person, no doubt you sneer at things like education. Don't you have some children to go molest, a gay person to through out of a building, or a scientist to burn at the stake. Isn't that how you people roll?

Really, you make me sick.

Hoooolllyyy shit

As much as I'd love to get in a bit of murder and molestation done this evening, I've only gone and doubled booked it with a trip to the pub. What am I like, eh? Would forget my head if it wasn't screwed on.

I'm not usually one to ask this, but could a mod give Oggy a bit of a slapping? Establish boundaries, and all that. It sounds cruel, but it's the only way they learn.

How about giving teh homophobic Octavious a bit of slapping. After all, I'm not the one justifying how non-Christians are not part of the community or making it all up.

I'm just reporting factual instances of actual activities by religious folks, frankly. Notice Octavious makes zero effort to repudiate any of it.

And waht am I supposed to learn Octavious? About how superior you are? how you deserve special rights and protections?

Oh, I forgot, i'm just one of those second class types who aren't part of the "community" probably because I'm not human.

Here's teh difference. No one is threatening to murder his kids because they're trans, or strip his family of their rights because their religion says to hate them.

THAT is the difference between me and Mr. Supremacist Octavious. Come back to me when you have to worry when your kid goes out at night praying he doesn't run into a bunch of queer bashers. Come back to me when your rights as a human being are on the ballot.

Yeah, for those of us who have to live it, your indifference to the suffering of others is nauseating. Literally.

"blind adherence to your philosophy in the face of all evidence to the contrary is, Oggy,"

That should result in a ban, suggesting that it's all made up.

Unfucking believable.

https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2017

https://www.aclu.org/other/past-lgbt-nondiscrimination-and-anti-lgbt-bills-across-country

Sorry if I offended your delicate ears, DO.

That's right, Octofascist. Slapping those fags is the only way they learn their place.

No doubt the mods will be along to do exactly as you say: Silence the voices of those who speak out so you can enjoy your smug hypocrisy.

I'm not sure what's going on but you're probably both wrong

"Don't you have some children to go molest, a gay person to through out of a building, or a scientist to burn at the stake. Isn't that how you people roll?"

Fuck you

If Brad can go around calling women murderers and genociders for abortion then Ogion can say that

Ogion certainly has made the most compelling case for legal abortion I've seen.... maybe not in the way he thinks though.

Come on, DO. He's called me a fascist, supremacist, child molester, murder, hypocrite, and called for me to be banned, and all within five minutes. That's a bit much, even for Oggy.