ND you are saying you have no evidence and can't prove that migrants from the 7 banned nations have attempted or planned any terrorist actions.

Is that it? You are taking what Trump has claimed on blind faith?

Also as described by 'Shock event' this is a tool being used to dvide us. So really i don't care where you stand, i want to know you will oppose a government which becomes corrupt.

I can prove it, but I don't have to do so. The information is easily available I was looking at it earlier.

@ND, the information is not easily available because it does not exist. Everyone reading this knows you're being disingenuous.

It was not "your question". I asked you to prove that these immigrants are more dangerous, you said there were figures. There are no figures.

This is hilarious, you're giving ME the burden of proving YOU right. My contention is that these stats *do not exist*. I have looked them up, there are no figures. This is the same thing as when radical leftists refuse to explain themselves because you need to "educate yourself".

You are fucking transparent.

A google search of "immigrant from banned country disproportionate crime" reveals only data that is CONTRARY to ND's claim.

Without ND being able to say that he supports the immigrant ban to prevent terrorism, there's only one alternative: ND hates people from these countries. Because they are from there.

"I was looking at it earlier."

Yeah, it was lying there next to your girlfriend from Canada.

@"ND
I can prove it, but I don't have to do so. The information is easily available I was looking at it earlier."

I really seems like you can't prove it, or you would have already. Thus i refuse to believe you can prove it, unless you provide credible evidence.

Fine. I'll provide my source evidence tonight.

ND is very bad at proving things.

I have proved ND a liar thousands of times, several of them on live television.

This is one of the more pathetic things I've seen on a forum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBrl88shaok

It sickens me that someone with ND's relationship to the truth is a schoolteacher.

Let's give him a chance to provide sources. If he cannot, then we can bring out the stocks

ND will provide sources when trump provides his tax returns

I already provided the data. Asked and answered. If you want to combat terrorism, start deporting young white Christian nationalist and anti-government men

Ogion did NOT provide the correct data.

-immigrants from Trump's banned countries commit disproportionately more terrorist attempts than other countries.-

this is what we're dealing with. Ogion only provided our regional terrorist demographics, NOT the global country terror statistics from immigrants of those countries moving into ALL other nations.

Ogion, your claim is the following:

"The current standards for immigrants from these countries is too low, so we need to shut it down to figure out how to beef it up".

If the standards for immigrants from these countries is too low, then the rate of terrorist attempts by immigrants from these countries IN THE US will be disproportionate to the rate of immigrants generally.

Therefore, you need to prove that immigrants from these banned countries commit more terrorist attempts per capita than immigrants from non-banned countries.

The following is not a valid argument:

"Because Sudan currently has a bunch of terrorism, the current standards for immigration from Sudan are too weak and must be beefed up".

Can you see why that's not a sound argument?

I don't see why James is the one to adjudicate this discussion, but what ND claimed to have and what would actually be a valid argument are two different things.

In order for the travel and refugee bans to make sense, what matters is the violence committed by those travelers and refugees in the US, which would be the evidence that our vetting process is insufficient and immigration needs to be halted until we have a better process. Ogion's data speaks precisely to this point.

OR, like Obama, you need a specific credible failing of the vetting process that needs fixing. In 2011, the issue was fingerprints found on roadside bombs in Iraq, and two terrorist plotters in Bowling Green KY, which prompted the Obama administration to slow down admission of Iraqi refugees while they fixed the vetting process. Frankly, I don't think there's any possible specific credible failing or threat that would justify a ban of this scope.

Of course, all of this is moot, since ND has provided fuck-all.

Still waiting on ND

but isn't it also pertinent to include these countries' immigrants terrorist demographics alongside non-banned countries, in Europe, Asia and Africa as well?

We haven't taken in as many immigrants as Europe from these regions recently, and since they have a bigger sample size, it'd probably be a good idea to assess which countries are most risky for them, so we can apply it back again to ourselves.

That's the only data that I can really see being put into contention here, as the question of current immigrant:terrorist ratio compared to natives in the USA is in favor of native born terrorism. Unless if ND has statistics I'm not seeing

@Leth what was Ogion's data?

"but isn't it also pertinent to include these countries' immigrants terrorist demographics alongside non-banned countries, in Europe, Asia and Africa as well?"

Marginally. But the US has way more control over migration from these countries than Europe does, so bad things happening in Europe don't necessarily mean vulnerabilities in *our* vetting process.

With that said...I had some FB troll try to scare me by listing crimes committed by immigrants in Germany recently. Because, y'know, 12% of the population committing 4% of the crime in Q1 2016 is *totally* frightening. It sounds better when you use raw numbers in a misleading way, I suppose.

Interesting footnote, though? Immigrants from Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan were particularly *underrepresented* compared even to other immigrants. On the other hand, North Africa was overrepresented compared to other immigrants, along with Serbia and Georgia.

No word on whether even the most criminal of demographics was worse than the average German. And let's not get started on the average American.

@Condescension
Ogion provided a few articles last page talking about the *lack of* terrorism committed in the US by people from those 7 countries.

@condescension. I think you have me confused with someone else. My point is that Trump and his supporters are exactly the kind of people who turned away Jews to send them back to the Nazi death camps.

And no one seems ready to address this notion that per capita right wing Christians are far more likely to commit terrorist acts and hate crimes than Muslim immigrants. Why aren't we targeting them for surveillance and deportation?

@Lethologica

if anything, ISIS is consolidating forces trying for a last stand in Mosul.

once Mosul falls and the splinter cells erupt... THAT would be a time for a temporary ban if any.

yep I was confused.

@Ogion

yeah but christian right-wingers make up a MUCH larger percent of the population, compared to the number of Muslim immigrants, what is the proportional data? you haven't provided it