Not working and taking handouts from the government = bad
Not working and taking handouts from your parents/grandparents = good

Got it.

oh my god leon
"supply and demand", right? are you familiar with this concept?
an empire somewhere (spain, britain, portugal etc) needs cheap labor in order to better enrich itself, so it pillages a continent of it's inhabitants and transports them to it's plantations and mines. this is how slavery and imperialism are related. try to keep up.

"If they ripped people off, then they will be in jail"

Really? Point me to where all those jailed visionaries because of the fraud they committed that led to the 2008-2009 collapse of American capitalism. Please, give me a list of names of jailed millionaire and billionaire investors.

"there must have been people willing to buy their products"

Yes because they need the product to survive.

"It's not the rich person's fault that the public had a demand for the product at that inflated price."

It's not the rich person's fault that they sell life saving drugs at inflated prices that bankrupt the sick and desperate? Your amoral adoration for market economics and total lack of concern for others is the best possible advertisement for overthrowing capitalism.

" Slavery in the US had nothing to do with imperialism in Africa. "

You're completely ignorant. European imperialism was intricately bound up in the American and Latin American slave-based economies. It's how the Americans got their slaves to begin with. European and northeastern American merchants would take the slaves from Africa and sell them to cotton planters. Portuguese African colonies were entirely predicated on the acquisition of slaves for the Americas.

"There is no slave wage in today's society."

Right, those sweatshops don't exist. Of course not. Those millions working while living in extreme poverty don't exist either.

"One can easily feed oneself even at the minimum wage of $7.25."

And can they afford healthcare, housing, other basic necessities?

imperialism began on the 1500s, when european powers started to invade other lands and commit genocides agains the natives. imperialism did not start in the 1880s, it started to decline then. wtf. colonialism IS imperialism.

I assure that I am not trolling. At $7.25/hour, a minimum wage worker could buy almost 2 big macs per hour. If they want to live anywhere other than under a bridge, then they shouldn't have been sloths during their early years of life.

brainbomb, I haven't watched Amistad, but I gather it's about slaves. Slaves and minimum wage workers are uncomparable.

7.25 an hour = $15k a year before taxes. That's the cost of renting an apartment for a year in a lot of American cities.
if you are not trolling, then you are the single greatest idiot i have ever encountered.

Actually leon its about a man who was taken from a part of Africa where the slave trade was illegal. He along with several others end up in a massive legal battle in the states after its determined that under some loopholes of the law... well you go ahead and watch it. Its a great movie.

One of the most classic lines of 90's cinema.

"GIVE US FREE"
"Please instruct the witness to stop saying Give us Free"

grumbledook, Parents and grandparents have full right to give their money to whoever they want, and if that is their children or grandchildren, then so be it. Would you have them turn all their money to the state?

ishirkmywork, Africans sold enemy tribes to Europeans. Europeans rarely resorted to pillaging villages to take slaves.

Putin, Those visionaries broke no law. Them causing the economy to collapse does not break the law. They got their money legally, and they can use that money however they want. They have no responsibility to take care of the common person.
Of course people need some things to survive. That is why we need a free market with competition rather than a communist government that is the only supplier.
It isn't the rich person's fault if the sick and desperate didn't make enough money. That is social darwinism. Obviously there must be some who can afford the medicine for the medicine to be kept at that price.
I already explained slavery quite thoroughly to ishirkmy work.
If they want healthcare, etc. then they should have worked harder.

ishirkmywork, If you look back, yo'll see that we were talking about African imperialism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_6EKVh3WTY

ishirkmywork, then they ought to live beneath a bridge. We can't afford to let everyone live in a nice, cozy home.

brainbomb, the movie sounds interesting. I'll watch it when I get the chance. It's quite difficult keeping up with debating 3 people at once.

Leon, I have looked back.... and it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to understand nothing about slavery, history, or the very economic forces that you claim to love so dearly. bye.

I do understand slavery and history beyond the scope of indoctrination. Bye.

Leon, it still doesn't change the fact that they received a bunch of money they didn't earn. Your argument is that people who get government assistance are lazy and didn't earn their money. Why does this not apply to the children of the rich? They should have to get a job and earn their keep too. Why do they get a head start in life just because great great granddad was a robber baron?

Also, nowhere did I suggest the state take everything.

Their grandparents worked hard, so it would be unfair for THEM to dictate where their money should go after their death. There are many conscientious rich parents that donate all their money to charity, but those who don't shouldn't be forced to do so. It's bad enough that there's inheritance tax. Moreover, tax on the rich affects self-made billionaires just as much as it affects those who got their wealth from parents or grandparents. The term robber barons is highly misleading. Men like Rockefeller never robbed anyone. All they did was create jobs that actually paid more than farming.

What would you suggest doing with the money that a rich parent might want to pass on? Burn it in a bonfire?

*unfair to them

I personally don't care if rich kids get money that their grandparents made. I also don't care if someone needs government assistance and they get money that way. I'm not the one calling one side leeches or lazy.

BTW, before you defend Rockefeller I'd look up the Ludlow Massacre... I suppose though you'll defend that too.

I am amazed this thread turned into this. Krellin makes one sarcastic remark about the plight of homeless grifters and everyone comes out and lines are drawn. This was just meant to be a silly post lol. You guys really can derive fascinating discussions from almost anything! I like it.

I gotta say watching two people with completely unrealistic political views argue is something I love about this site. It's like a debate version of hobo fights.

grumbledook, The difference is, inheritance is given voluntarily, while handouts are forcibly taken from taxpayers.
About the Ludlow Massacre, " the miners armed themselves and attacked dozens of mines over the next ten days, destroying property and engaging in several skirmishes with the Colorado National Guard along a 40-mile front from Trinidad to Walsenburg."

Good one, Hastati!

"imperialism did not start in the 1880s, it started to decline then. wtf. colonialism IS imperialism."

Actually European imperialism expanded considerably during the 1880s. Japanese and American imperialism also expanded during this era of New Imperialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Imperialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa

@leon1122: i don't agree with you, and i never will, but just to be sure i at least understand you:

do you really think that no matter where you're born, no matter who your parents are, no matter your upbringing, no matter the quality of education your parents can afford, if you work hard enough, you will be rich one day? you really believe that?

Thats it, im +1 ing putin.

Those born to poorer circumstances will no doubt have a tougher time, but that is no reason to punish the rich for it. There are cases of those who are born in poverty and rise to greatness. More often one generation is a janitor, the next is a Walmart cashier, the next is a manager, and perhaps one day, a descendant of the janitor will become a CEO. This is, in my opinion, better than taking money from those who worked their way to the top and give it to an unemployed person who will then have no incentive to find work and remain in a state of perpetual poverty.

nonono, you didn't read my question. i was asking if EVERY person can get rich. EVERY person. on the whole planet. even the three year old kid in africa starving to death.

"Europeans rarely resorted to pillaging villages to take slaves."

They gave guns to their intermediaries to capture the slaves for them and built a very large number of slave forts all along the coast. The slaving raids increased in frequency because of European demand. Slavery was on a small scale in Africa prior to the arrival of the Europeans, who grew it into a global industry. Your attempts to whitewash the history of slavery and blame it on the Africans is equally as despicable as your polemics in favor of social Darwinism.

Many rich are rich because of systems they control that keep them rich and others poor.

"Those visionaries broke no law. Them causing the economy to collapse does not break the law."

this is wrong. some of them most certainly broke more than a few laws. causing the economy to collapse does not break the law, you're correct - but it's how they did it. that's the problem.