i.e. THERE IS MORE TO THE STORY.

If you check out the link to the radio interview I posted for steephie, Krellin, that sheds a bit more light. It's clear she didn't know how seriously he was struggling.

I'm still waiting for Octavious's comments, also.

He didn't tell her that he was sanctioned and she didn't know his electricity was cut off until he found his body. You're terrible.

This is the argument for Scottish independence.

Octavious: Sometimes the best way to wake up your fellow countrymen is to engage in shock and awe statements of truth. A statement such as "The . . . government is murdering the poor and the vulnerable." is an example of this shock and awe debating. Now, trying to change someone's opinion on an internet forum is foolhardy, but Jamiet99uk's initial post was clearly intended to lay the ugly truth on the table.

By the way, I've ignored the "Cuntservative"/Conservative issue because you have stated that you do not care about name-calling.

krellin: As Jamiet99uk said, listen to the sister in her own words:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0253y4y

Then fuck off, troll.

Sister is a lying hypocritical bitch, JECE. I don't need to listen to her post-fact guilt-ridden words that she made AFTER she realized what a worthelss cunt she was when she let her brother die for want of a fucking refirgerator.

All you chumps that think her story is the 100% truth are morons and suckers, and I have a bridge to sell you. Now troll on, bitches.

There something deeply ironic about krellin accusing other people of being troll, when he's one of the most objectionable people on this website.

mendax -- do me a favor, and address my specific comment, instead of just randomly attacking me like a fucking douchebag.

I addressed everything in your comment that was worth addressing.

This happened to me when I was unemployed, they just stop your claim and then you have to start a new claim, in the end I stopped claiming even though I had no other form of income, then miraculously the Unemployment numbers fall, another economic miracle by the Tories, stopping peoples benefits if they are late for an appointment. This is their policy, the real scroungers know their way around the system, they know how to make it work for the,
The simple truth is if you vote for right-wingers do not expect caring compassionate policies as they don't give a damn. In democracy you get the govt you deserve even if it is not the govt you voted for.
The Conservatives (just like Labour) support their friends when in power. The Tories spend a lot of time resisting regulation against bankers and giving tax breaks and perks to the richest in our society, that is what they do because they look after their own, if we don't like that we can vote for someone else as the Liberals did, then ended up getting the Tories anyway, that is why the Liberals are going to get a good kick-in in 2015, don't treat your supporters like mugs and fools or they will have the final say.
Tories out, Thatcherite style politics don't work in the modern day, in fact it never really worked economically, she was economically illiterate.

krellin: I know this may be shocking to you, but the distraught you hear in that poor woman's voice is echoed by many evil, socialist comrades even though these evil, socialist comrades never met either of the siblings. The comments in this thread (except yours, of course, since you're a troll) are the "post-fact guilt-ridden words" of society at large "AFTER [sic] she realized what a worthelss [sic] cunt she was when she let her brother die for want of a fucking refirgerator [sic]." Yes, that's right; each and every one of us could have saved a man's life. It's not just the sister's fault that the sociopathic rules of the game cut of the electricity to the fridge. Disturbingly, it's all our fault that the rules aren't more socialist.

@ krellin: "address my specific comment"

Your specific comment is a baseless attack against a woman who has recenty suffered a painful personal loss.

You're an arsehole and a troll. I'm sorry you came back.

More hate speech from Krellin.

HATE SPEECH

1984 ALL UP IN HEAHHHH

All krellin does is post hate speech. It's fucking annoying.

I've asked krellin to tone it down in an email, but I'll reiterate it here:
Krellin, please tone it down and it is inappropriate to talk about a game where "bums" are to be killed.
Thank you.

Hell, just ban the guy from posting. I've muted him myself. But he seems to be violating the policies about posting all the time. Why do you mods put up with that crap? He's trolling everyone, especially you.

I apologize for my comments above. that being said, the assertion I was trying to make is that a woman is calling for some sort of investigation into the death of her brother, whom she claims died because his insulin went bad because he couldn't refrigerate it...

...and you are all buying, hook line and sinker, this idea that he was some wonderful upstanding person who is just a 100% innocent victim.

NONE of you have the courage to ask: Why didn't the sister take him in, and offer him a spot in her refrigerator for his insulin?

Why didn't she? Probably becuase there is more to the story.

It's ironic that for any given story -- let's say a cop shoots someone at the scene of a crime -- all most all of you will *immediately* say that the story is wrong, the cops are evil, blah blah blah....the usual diatribe of nonsense before the truth comes out.

So here is another story where all the state-haters can come out and say the guy was pure innocence, and died a victim of society...and you never stop to ask yourself why his sister - who upon his death is "outraged" - didn't have the decency to bring him into her home. Maybe he had issues we are not told of....a severe drug problem, or some other issue that cause the sister to turn away from him in life...and now that he is dead, she is guilt-ridden an deflecting.

There is another side to the story...and not all deaths are innocent. Some deaths are due to *self-destruction*.

I'm not happy the guy is dead, and I never celebrated his death -- the only ones that make that claim about me are the obvious haters that always seek to hate on me without actually having the intellectual integrity to actually read what I wrote. So I am not "celebrating" his death - it's tragic, certainly. But to mindlessly follow the herd and automatically blame the state when you, in reality, know nothing of the story other than the clearly-biased version told by the guilt-ridden sister.

So sorry if I offended. If you are unable to entertain alternates possibilities to such a story, you probably shouldn't post them for comment.

Krell is back, back again...... now everyone return to the forum, to the forum, now everyone return to the forum
Stop ..... it's banhammer time !!

And for the "sorry, not sorry" award...

Some people here certainly react too aggressively. Krellin, like me, simply seems interested in the other side of the story.

For the record, unlike krellin, I don't assume that the course of events as said by the sister is wrong, but even if the sister was truly unaware, there's more to this story. Why didn't the guy tell his sister?

The political part is pretty simple. Not exactly the government's finest hour, how bad you think their approach was is up to you. Really sad, but that's kind of the end of that part of the story.

Why not discuss the other part?

Discussion and krellin don't mix well

@ krellin: "Why didn't the sister take him in, and offer him a spot in her refrigerator for his insulin?"

This has already been addressed. She did not know his power had been cut off, because she was not aware at the time that his benefits had been sanctioned. If you can prove otherwise: do so now.

"Some deaths are due to *self-destruction*."

Please explain how this man was responsible for his own death.

"So here is another story where all the state-haters can come out and say the guy was pure innocence, and died a victim of society"

I started this thread and, as you should know by now, I'm a pretty full-on statist. I'm the last person you can call a "state-hater". The current Conservative *government* are state-haters, and that's the problem. They are aggressively attempting to destroy the state from within. And as for society, society *is* the victim here - a society in which people like David Clapson are being killed by the actions of a political class which is mis-using the tools of the state for their own callous, self-serving ends.

@Jamie:
I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here, but the point I'm making is real.

"Please explain how this man was responsible for his own death."

He didn't tell his caring sister who would gladly help him because he's an awesome guy that his power was cut.

If he would've told the sister, either he wouldn't have died or the sister would've let him to die, but since she's such a nice woman it must be the first.

WHY did he have to get himself killed if he could have just asked for help? Did he hate his sister so much that he'd rather die than ask her help?

/\ There it is...alternate possibilities to the story.

Anecdote: There is a local bum in my town, well know, seen all over the place, always on his bike with his collection of stuff, usually wearing about 6 layers of shirt, coats, etc, even in the summer. This past winter in Michigan was particularly brutal, and many people reached out and offered this man help. Housing, the chance to clean up, job training, etc....

...he refuses it. ALL of it. He prefers to live isolated and alone. He refuses the help of others. Most likely, he is legitimately insane. He's also well known to be a substance abuser. There have been stories in the local paper detailing some of this.

When this man eventually dies having lived a life shorter than it could have been, it will be a case of self-destruction. No doubt some caring citizens will step up at that point and claim the state killed him, etc etc etc because nobody forced him to be institutionalized or whatever.

No, it's not a completely analogous story, but, again, this notion that every homeless person that dies is 100% innocent, and 100% a victim of the state is truly absurd. Oh, it's nice to get all riled up and blame the state, etc etc etc becuase "the state" is so awful in so many ways...but sometimes you just have the swallow the hard, cold reality that sometimes people die because they make horrible personal choices.

The difference between my local bum story and this story is that everyone was/is aware of his plight. But in this case, there is a story of a person who died and nobody knew of his plight until it was too late....and yet none of you think to ask *why* nobody knew....which means there is more to the story. THAT is my point, and has been my point all along.

You can NOT villify the state until you know the whole story....period.

@ Krellin: Instead of going off on a tangent of your own barely-relevant story, please answer the questions I have actually asked you.

Once again you are talking about "vilifying the state" when, as I have stated repeatedly, I am a supporter of the state. You give the clear impression you are not actually paying any attention to what I post.

"there is a story of a person who died and nobody knew of his plight until it was too late....and yet none of you think to ask *why* nobody knew"

The Department for Work and Pensions knew that they had reduced this man's income to a level below that which, on the basis of their own calculations, he would be unable to live on. They knew they had put him in a position in which, unless someone else intervened or he somehow got a job, which he was trying to do in difficult circumstance, he would not be able to support himself. They drove him into the position of immediate peril which caused his death.

This is a fact.