If I was in Kiev, I'd be very scared. The situation is out of control, with far-right militias patrolling the streets and even making 'arrests'. Carlos Franganillo, the correspondent for TVE in Kiev for three months now, has been looking terrified for a long time around the violent protesters – not least when they were using a trebuchet back in January.

See this video from 2:09 for images from a few days ago:
http://www.rtve.es/noticias/20140225/manifestantes-kiev-pretenden-influir-formacion-del-nuevo-gobierno-ucrania/886501.shtml
See this video for the trebuchet:
http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/telediario/grupos-radicales-convierten-protestas-ucrania-batalla-campal/2331028/

krellin: No one wants to hear your moronic nonsense here. Shut up and let the others debate.

"See, here I was under the impression that at the onset the Ukrainians cooperated with the Nazis because they hated the Soviets so much."

It's true that partisan activity in Ukraine was lower than elsewhere in the USSR. It's also true that the UPA and OUN fought against the partisans and Red Army in Ukraine. However, the Red Army itself was comprised of a great number of Ukrainians, about 7 million in total, with a great number of generals.

Anyway, see for yourselves who engaged in violence first, and who repeatedly offered concessions to the other side.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/26/ukraine-president-concessions-protests-violence

^^Did not know. You learn something new every day.

But the statues remain symbols of Russian authority, which a main thing that the pro-European elements are protesting.

As for the concessions, I didn't like them. It was as if Yanukovych took one step forward (with the trade pact) which caused protests. Then took another step forward (he enacted harsh anti-protest laws) which turned the protests violent. His concession was then to take one step back, basically. He was trying to end the violence, but it wasn't addressing what the protesters were protesting for in the first place. And once things turn as violent as they did, the current leader of a country must either crack down or step down, as we've seen in history. Once things get to that extreme, a middle ground no longer becomes possible due to radical elements gaining power on both sides. I liked the deal that we worked out with the French and Polish Foreign Ministers last week. I think the country would've been better off had the protestors accepted that, but the radical right had grown too strong by then.

Which leads to a lot of the problems we see today. Members of the radical right can't be kept in control, so Russia is protecting its interests. But in protecting its interests, Russia is just adding fuel to the fire and I'm damn sure Putin knows this too. He'll have a referendum in Crimea and try to annex it under the laws Russia currently has.

More images from the last few days from western Ukraine (from 0:10 to around 0:50), including public shaming and armed milita patrols:
http://www.rtve.es/noticias/20140226/putin-pone-alerta-ejercito-mientras-crimea-se-debate-entre-ucrania-rusia/887520.shtml

"He was trying to end the violence, but it wasn't addressing what the protesters were protesting for in the first place."

Ukraine is (or was) a democracy. If the protesters didn't like Yanukovich's policy, then run for election and get a new government in power. Every time they lose they resort to coups. They did it in 2004, they're doing it now. Yanukovich even forced out his very loyal prime minister to make way for the opposition. The opposition did nothing but escalate. This was prior to the implementation of new anti-protest laws. The fact is the IMF had been playing games with the Ukraine for years, always increasing the structural adjustment requirements for any deal. Ditto the EU, which once again kept upping the ante with the Association Agreement. They were treating Ukraine like children, and Ukraine reacted accordingly. I have never in my life seen such a protest because an international agreement wasn't signed.

Russia has behaved with maximum restraint, considering what is going on. Yanukovich has been quite frustrated with the lack of commentary from the Russian leadership. Meanwhile leaders of EU countries as well as top politicians from Washington (McCain) have been at the Maidan and actively protesting alongside the rioters. If you want to talk about fanning the flames, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the EU and Washington.

"He'll have a referendum in Crimea and try to annex it under the laws Russia currently has."

I highly doubt it.

...But if he does Putin33 will have his Pom poms ready!

While you cry for the Praviy Sektor and the thugs in Kiev.

There aren't any good sides in this, are there?

I don't cry for anyone here (except the dead and injured., especially not the anti-Semitic segment of the opposition.

You on the hand continue your unwavering devotion to your master

"especially not the anti-Semitic segment of the opposition."

Yeah, bullshit.

"There aren't any good sides in this, are there?"

Fascists vs centrists, no good sides at all.

um... Santa's Jewish (take that Megyn Kelly!), so I actually don't think there's any reason to disbelieve that...

He doesn't give two shits about anti-semitism in eastern europe. He's turned a blind eye to fascism in eastern europe in the past and he'd rather bitch about Putin than say anything critical about US foreign policy here.

I have no idea what you are talking about above as I rarely get involved in Eastern European discussions on here. I guess this is just putin33 being Putin33

And, by the way, I don't miss the irony of your unwavering support of fascist Baathist regimes with all the influences of national socialism on its ideology and history. Or your continued enthusiastic support of stalin's persecution and massacre of Jews, acknowledged by his successor only stopped, mercifully by his death.

As I said putin33 the consummate hypocrite.

I don't miss the irony of you citing Nazi propaganda about the liberators of the death camps. Or the irony of you pissing on the graves of the heroes who defeated fascism. You manipulate Jewish victimhood to justify your support for US foreign policy, namely Israel. nothing more. Everybody else is just cannon fodder. It's really disgusting.

"Fascist" Baathist Syria is fighting Al Qaeda jihadists, fuckface. "Fascist" Baathist Syria is protecting religious minorities from utter destruction, while your friends in Washington want to turn it over to Sunni extremists of the worst kind.

But hey Israel is in bed with Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, and the racist Syrian and Libyan jihadists, so it's ok. Syria must be the bad guy because Washington said so.

And hey cue the 200 posts about how Santa is the Super Jew par excellence and nobody else can be Jewish because Santa consulted a rabbi.

I am not talking about the liberation of death camps. The red army liberated my grandfather, they were about to ship him to Siberia, of course, but then again it was a Jewish red army lieutenant that told him not to get on the train. By the way by grandfather does not have any ties to national socialism other than being forced to do labor by them, although I do not doubt you will try to make the connection.

But no, I am not referring to WWII, of course I am referring to the widespread and targeted persecution of Jews late in your heroes rain, where with charges so trumped up that Nikita Kruschev even later rejected them sentenced several Jewish cultural leaders, doctors, and poets to death. While you zip up your pecker from pissing on their graves (or ignoring them as another of your favored tactics dictates) I'll also tell you ago that I have many policy disagreements with Israel. Your continued insistence that I am a pro Israel zombie is striking me as rather odd.

And "fuckface." seems like I hit a chord.

"He doesn't give two shits about anti-semitism in eastern europe. He's turned a blind eye to fascism in eastern europe in the past and he'd rather bitch about Putin than say anything critical about US foreign policy here."

Then allow me--

1. For reference's sake, Putin33...when did Santa turn a blind eye to fascism in Eastern Europe?

2. Can't we do both...can't we kvetch about US foreign policy AND bitch about Putin (well, we know you won't, given your unswerving devotion to the man--name one instance here where you've publicly denounced or even strongly disagreed with him...come on, if I can bash Shakespeare for that piece of shit "The Merry Wives of Windsor," surely you can find SOMETHING that Vladimir Putin's done that might be, oh, just a bit worthy of loud and unreserved criticism?--but still, the rest of us can blame both sides, yes? Why is it either or, Putin33? Why is it always a black-and-white with you, with you or against you, all the way on the Left or not on the Left at all?)

3. For as much as he and I have had differences in the past, I think the LAST thing you could say about Santa would be that he doesn't care about anti-antisemitism...at all...in any form...period. He cares quite a fucking lot.

Great, now I got to deal with this shit.

"You manipulate Jewish victimhood to justify your support for US foreign policy, namely Israel. nothing more."

I'm sorry, Putin, did you swap minds with the head of the Order of the Ku Klux Klan there for a moment, or would you like to continue making such allegations? Really? "The jews are playing up being the victim," so sayeth every post (and many pre) Holocaust anti-semite group out there...please.

"But hey Israel is in bed with Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, and the racist Syrian and Libyan jihadists, so it's ok. Syria must be the bad guy because Washington said so."

1. ...Yeah, I'm going to say that Syria's the bad guy NOT because D.C. said so, but because, well, Assad's very nicely captured that title himself.

2. As Israel's struck Syria recently, would you care to explain how the two are secretly buddy bunkmates?

"Great, now I got to deal with this shit."

Fuck you, asshole, for once I was trying to take your side in things!

Yeah, opportunists and phonies stick together.

Oh, oh, which am I?

Either way I'm pissing Holden Caulfield off like nothing else does--except "the dam movies" of course!

...you see them both in the mirror every night

notice comrade has yet to address his Idol's murder of Jews and attempted destruction of Russian Jewish culture by the hangman's noose. Hypocrite.