Wow, just wow

No, we absolutely will not be releasing people's private emails, even if they've been banned.

Aliases?

Ye will decide if we're releasing that info, Czech.

@the Czech, we will not be giving any more information about the case out then what I've already mentioned, though anyone is free to go through his games to look for themselves.

I find cheating at something that gets you nothing but worthless points an interesting psychological study. I play chess online as well, and I've encountered cheats on chess sites as well. One guy, in particular, stands out. He was not only obnoxiously abusive and arrogant in his chats, but in a timed game, when the time would get low, and I was close to beating him, he'd send repeated "cancel" requests at you so that you couldn't move without clicking the deny the cancel request first, and thus run out of time.

Anyway, good work Mods.

poor guy, we should all take off our hats for this person. i really feel bad for someone who cheats others online, in a diplomacy game. he was probably real lonely in rl

lol

Look at Sargmacher's messages here:
http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=814769&page-thread=6#threadPager

Does anyone else think he/she was lying?

@ILN, there are plenty of people on this site that would brag about a bunch of things then go home and sit in their bed and smoke all night.

@MM, I have actually seen the same thing done in a lot of online games. I agree that that would make an interesting study. My guess is that it's a simple "thrill" of a sorts - stimuli - that would make someone keep going. A lot of things are like that. It's no doubt that Sarg didn't have to cheat to win anyway.

@Jmo/other mods, speaking of inevitable questions, you've had plenty, so I'll spare you and just say thank you for this investigation. I have reported plenty of well known people for multiing in what was just a string of good moves, but you've reminded me that I shouldn't bother caring who it is because they might be a multi anyway ;)

Certainly sad for webDip, but I'm glad that you guys have come out against top players that don't deserve to be there.

"I had quite a few problems early on with Mods who blatantly favored established players. I'm glad to see this is changing."

Santa, I'm not sure when you're referring to exactly but at least in the times when I was a more active mod, there was no such favoritism, indeed we even dealt with some high profile cheaters. It was just that we didn't actually catch them.

I myself often ran random checks on established forum posters' accounts just to keep them honest, and occasionally still do when I feel like it.

"Santa, I'm not sure when you're referring to exactly but at least in the times when I was a more active mod, there was no such favoritism, indeed we even dealt with some high profile cheaters. It was just that we didn't actually catch them. "

Which is why I went back over my games, and people who I accused of cheating and who kept on playing after I was told that they were not cheating, are now banned with the exact person I said they cheated with. I can give you the name and I actually am pretty sure that you were the one that gave them the pass. There was a good deal of rolling eyes and thinking some (myself included) were just trouble makers.

Otherwise how could blatant cheaters like Peter25 and prof007 get through despite several E-mails, pms threads etc.

Mods were too busy listening to people like Sargmacher and Sandgoose, thats why.

But it looks better now, and that is good

Well, like you said Santa, even if that was the case before it isn't anymore. We have no problem checking every case reported.

This is upsetting news. I wish I could have seen this play out. Sargmacher was one of the last people on this site I would have expected to have cheated.

To those interested, I added him on Facebook a while back. If any of y'all would like to keep up with him, PM me about it and I'll message him on FB. I'm not going to hand out his account without his permission though, so you might not get added, just a forewarning.

this does explain most of the accounts who come on for the first time and start playing live gunboats for their first games

Thanks mods and I'm glad you decided to ban. It's bad when new players cheat but it's even worse when it's a person has long been a part of the site and understands how the site is affected still decides to continue cheating. Thanks for catching it.

Yes, often it does.

Well, I didn't know he had been caught before. But still, i don't think productive players should be banned -- if anything, it just makes it easier for them to start fresh with a new alias. I think thats what happened with rlumley/smiley, no? its better to keep the player but not invite him to games if you dont like him, etc.

I also think a guy like Sarg was a net benefit to the website-- i assume (although I could be wrong) that he only cheated in live games? If so, would it be possible to only ban a player from live games? Because he played honestly in a lot of good high quality passworded games and he was always a fun guy to play with.

There are also different levels of multi'ing that should be treated differently. Some just have multiple accounts just because their first account runs out of ducats. Other do it just to experiment occasionally or fill up games that wouldnt start otherwise. I think its unfair to tar all multis with the same brush.

all in all, i just dont see how it improves the website to ban someone like sarg. especially when players havent been banned in similar situations in the past

Frank, please learn to read. He had been SEVERAL times before, countiued to do it, and showed no remorse over his cheating.

And if he was cheating, he wasn't net benefit

and not sure about the rhumley/smiley thing, always been confused about that

Well I understand the mod's reasons for banning. I, like Frank, wish he hadn't been banned. While the two of us always butted heads in game, I always liked playing with him. It probably helps of course that he never cheated in any games I was in with him.

If I had experienced his cheating first hand my opinion might be very different.

I, like you two, wish he weren't banned, but I couldn't be more happy to see him gone if he cheated and didn't try to amend. Like you said, damian, if he cheated you out of wins, you'd feel the same as I did.

for the record, smiley never cheated.

Frank you're an idiot and a multi apologist. There's no room for that kind of asshatery. The moment you allow that junk in limited doses as you suggest, this site will turn to shit. Find his contact info and you can go play with your man crush and 5 of his multi accounts at another site, or better yet maybe you can arrange a face to face, lol.

+ 1 Gen. Lee. That's like saying if you APPEAR decent enough to everyone else, you are immune to the banhammer

and Frank, they do do that. I know for a fact some people who made a second account to join more games because they ran out of points gets banned. the Mods are VERY forgiving

To be fair to Frank, there are different kinds of Multi's.

Those who play in games with more than one account, and those who accounts never play in the same game.

Both are against the rules. I would argue the first is clearly worse. Sarg falls into the first category. (That said, if you show a desire to reform, and you are a positive influence on the community, I think you should be given another strike. )

I can read, thanks guys. I'm also not an idiot. I guess I am a multi apologist, partially because Sarg isn't here to speak for himself.

here's my basic argument: from going through around ten pages or so of his games, it looks like he only cheated in live games...i wonder how much of a difference it even made in those games. so, would be there a way to only ban players from live games? sarg was a good player in non-live games -- he started good games, posted eog's, had a creative playing style, etc. He was also sometimes really annoying to play with in press but it was always fun. If you ban him, nothing really stops him from joining as a new account, right? in which case, whats the point of banning him? Lastly, in the past, players with histories of multiaccounting have become exemplary members and even mods. I just don't think its useful or in the interest of the site to ban a guy like sarg.