@obi,

Just a quick detail point:

"a man and a woman who had two SONS somehow led to the entire human race..."

Adam and Eve actually had daughters as well, according to Genesis, and more than 3 sons. See Gen. 5:4.

Not that it affects your argument, but if you're going to criticize Scripture, you might as well at least make criticisms based on what it really says.

LOL, no Krellin is right, but his argument is meaningless.

Of COURSE homosexual BEHAVIOR is a choice.

My heterosexual behavior is a choice too. So is Krellin's. But that says nothing whatsoever about... well, whatever the hell point Krellin was trying to make :P

Apparently that its OK to be gay as long as you don't fuck anybody?

Yebellz - you, of course, completely miss the point. I did *not* choose to be an alcoholic, but I am expected to *not* behave as an alcoholic. It's strognly prevelant in my family -- even in family members distant with whom there is no, and never has been, contact. Alcoholism is a genetic pre-disposition...but I am expected to not act as an alcoholic, because it degrades society.

MANY people believe that homosexual behavior is a negative influence on society. I am NOT saying this is right or wrong...I am saying people believe this. as such, they expect people to exercise their human will power and suppress their negative behavoir. Nobody will know you are a homosexual unless you EXPRESS IT BY CHOICE....same as alcoholism.

Alcoholism is a MUCH more accurate parallel to homosexual behavior than being born with black skin that you can not change, and can not choose to express differently.

How fuckinf hard is that to understand, moron?

YJ -- The argument is NOT meaningless. You can not compare CHOICE to "NOT CHOICE" and say they are equal in morality. that is simply bullshit in the exteme!

Why don't you man up, put aside your bullshit politically correct belief system and stand by truth and logic **just once**...

YJ...is you are gay and don't fuck anyone, that is OK -- if you don't think people should be gay.

It is EXACTLY the same as saying "I want to murder someone....but I am repressing my urge to slaughter Putin". Because I only DREAM about running him through a wood chipper, I am not a murderer.

A fag that keep his dick out of another guy's ass is not yet a homo, by this argument.

A BLACK MAN IS ALWAYS A BLACK MAN.

What the fuck is so hard to understand about this?

Obi being clueless about what the bible says? that has never happened

"Alcoholism is possibly a gentic predisposition...but we expect people to exercise their brains and choose NOT to be alcoholics, believing it to be harmful to society."

I wish there was a prohibition against alcoholic marriage so krellin would never have procreated

By the way, for those who didn't watch the whole video, out of disgust, there's a big twist at the end.

I was literally, writing down notes, to prepare a point by point counter-argument to post, until the huge 180 at the end really illustrated the point much better than I could have.

Actually, Krellin, now that I think about it (and maybe I'm just being argumentative here) wouldn't you say it's fair to suppose that a black man who would make the choice to behave in a "stereotypical white" manner (speech, dress, haircut, values) would find his path to be markedly easier in America than a man who chose to behave in a "stereotypical black" manner?

^^ posted before I got to read your response. Gimme a sec.

Santa....maybe you are right. Except, you see, asshole, I am choosing to repress the genetic predisposition, asshole. of course, being a bitter, judgmental liberal who claims to have sympathy for people...you reveal yourself to, in truth, be just another judgmental asshole, who in fact doesn't support people who openly admit they need help, but instead choose to bash them for their honesty.

Fuck you, you pathetic asshole.

Yeah...I admit my problem...GET IT...I acknowledge it, I FIGHT IT...I doubt you have enough intellectual integrity to fight your own issues openly and ask for help when yo need it. I expose myself to ridicule becuase I acknowledge the need for help, and I'm not ashamed. You fucktard liberal assholes....yo make me want to puke with your so-called social sympathy which comes out as hate-filled ridicule. Pathetic lose.

I have an idea. Why don't we hold a debate between Obi and Krellin. You have an idiot from the right and an idiot from the left, both don't bother to read what you write, both cannot admit they were wrong and both have comically inflated egos.

Just make the debate "What color is the sky" Krellin says purple, obi says there is no sky.

YJ....Ever see someone look at someone and call them a nigger bacause of their skin color? Behavior has noting to do with being black. Grow up....lame, terrible argument.

Santa - I read what yo right....and I respond **directly** to it. You, on the other hand, have never demonstrated reading comprehension skills. In fact, in this thread, you have NOT specifically addressed my points....but my points specifically address the posted topic.

How humorous that in trying to attack me, you reveal yourself to be the fool.

"Except, you see, asshole, I am choosing to repress the genetic predisposition, asshole"

You see genetic predisposition, I see weakness, and by trying, it just means you are failing. perhaps we should send you to "Pray out the Grey... Goose" therapy.

Santa has no argument....so has choosen instead to attack....typical. Santa...before yo further make a fool of yourself, try reading the thread.

I didn't even read your previous post as evidenced that we both posted in the same minute. See how that works?

Santa....attack if it makes you feel better. I pity you...again, good liberal such as yourself. You see stupid lazy poor people and say they need a government hadnout because they choose to not work...you see someone else with a condition that *most* scintists say has genetic links, something that with no question has physical addiction...and you say loser. I say I fight my fight, I engage my friends and family to help me. I say you have no idea what you are talking about, and *anyone* on these threads that knows anyone in a like situation knows how full of shit you are...and knows that when i say I fight it, I do.

The saddest part about you, Sanya, is that you argument suggests that YOU yourself live a perfect life, free of any wrong behavior...and you probably actually believe this to be true. And for that, I truly, truly pity you. You are a sad human being...full of compassion for people that choose tho harm themselves...sometimes...and thus you make a fraud of yourself.

And...Santa...you still neglect to address the argument....because, apparently, you might be too drunk yourself to construct an argument other than to attack people. What a sad human being you must be.

You didn't read my post...then here...take the time to, and then address it. Tell me how a CHOICE of behavior equals being BORN WITH BLACK SKIN.

OK, first of all, you know damn well I'm not PC at all, so I'll thank you not to bandwagon me :)

So what you are saying is this (correct me if I'm wrong):

1) Homosexual behavior is a choice.
2) Homosexuality, like murder, is defined by ones actions, not by ones desires.

Therefore, by these arguments (again, correct me if I went astray):

Since sexual orientation is established based on behavior, not desire:

1) There are no homosexual virgins.
2) Of course, then there are no heterosexual virgins.
3) A man who is married to a woman, had sex with her to conceive only until she became pregnant, but is now totally abstinent. He happens to fantasize about cock on a daily basis. This man is not a homosexual.
4) You, Krellin, were not heterosexual until you lost your virginity.

Look, there's a fundamental difference here.

Krellin seems to genuinely believe that homosexuality is a defect of character, and that one should strive to correct it, rather than accept it as natural.

I don't think you'll be able to convince him to let go of his hateful and ignorant stance on the matter.

In short, what I'm saying is, don't waste your time arguing with the hateful idiot/troll.

You should spend your time trolling him instead, like me.

And its so easy to troll a alcoholic with terrible work ethic like him.

Do you convict me of murder when I lay in bed dreaming of putting Santa through a paper shredder, or after you have the bag of his gooey remains?

Do you convict me of theft when I am covetting your wallet, or after I have stuffed it in my pocket.

Temptation is not equivalent to action. This entire argument is based upon "Christian" principles. Christ was tempted...did not act on temptation (but obviously thought about it...)...and was sinless. So....you want to dream about Obi's cock in your ass, go for it. By the argument, you are not a fag until Obi penetrates your ass....and...trust me...he will try if you give him the chance.

THAT is the argument from a Christian perspective.

I'm actually *not* saying I believe this....I have not truly decided...but that is the Christian argument..

No...you are not a heterosexual until you touch the girl...by the argument. Prior to that...prior to choicing to act on something, you are asexual...

Again...do I 100% buy the argument? Ehh....I don't' know.

But the bottom line is, to equivocate BLACK SKIN to thinking "I wish I had a cock in my ass" is just about the most insulting thing you can suggest to a black man.

Santa....you are not trolling me. You ar just demonstrating your complete lack of ability to construct an argument. And....FUCKTARD....I'm not a work. How fucking stupid are you?

yEBELZ...YOU TOO....I see you have no actual argument....just insults. Another Politically Correct moron that can't justify his so-called beliefs.

Pathetic.

"Do you convict me of murder when I lay in bed dreaming of putting Santa through a paper shredder, or after you have the bag of his gooey remains?"

u mad bro?

Yebellz....hmmmm....I'll bet you believe in evolution. On the evolutionary scale, homosexuality is a DEAD END for a species...and therefore by definition A DEFECT.

If you do NOT believe in evolution, but instead believe in creation by some God...I defy you to find a majority of religions that say their "God" supports faggotry....

Thus...whether you are a believer or an evolutionist, homosexuality is deviant, undesired behavior. It's **basic** logic.

I think your points are irrelevant as usual. I think the speakers point, that the exact same language used in pro-segregation speeches in the fifties are currently being used today against another group. I think it does a good job in showing that the same impulse used to persecute african americans and defend segregation are being used today to disallow two consenting adults to marry one another. I think it was used expertly to reveal that the apologetic tenor of anti-gay rhetoric, is just a recycling of the apologetic tenor of pro-segregation rhetoric; Those who are oppressing claiming that they, themselves are being oppressed by a group of people being provided equal rights. I think your points are asinine and completely miss the easily recognized argument that was given in that video.