Why don't you show me some of this "left media propaganda?"

And all that other stuff too, if you wouldn't mind.

why do I have to show you anything? Do your own research.

Aww, you're not gonna link me to something to prove me wrong? I feel cheated.

And I'm not going to do research to prove YOUR point. That's not how this works.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Fine, since you're too lazy to type in a google search, here is DOJ study that says 1.5 crimes are prevented by legal gun owners annually.

I don't need to "prove" my point. My point is well established, it's just not newsworthy.

"The NSPOF does not provide much evidence on whether consumers who
buy guns for protection against crime get their money's worth. The NSPOF-based estimate of millions of DGUs each year greatly exaggerates the true number, as do other estimates based on similar surveys. Much debated is whether the widespread ownership of firearms deters crime or makes it more deadly—or perhaps both—but the DGU estimates are not informative in this regard."

Nope, try again.

"I don't need to "prove" my point. My point is well established, it's just not newsworthy."

Ahh, the New Right. Ideology over evidence any time. Why do you guys even bother to call yourselves "conservative" anymore?

If legally owning a gun stops so many crimes, why is this happening so often? Why, every night, do I hear about shootings on the news? I know guys that are dead with bullet wounds and it hurts like hell. Grow up where I did and it's practically normal to have a few dead friends. How is anything done helping? How does holding a community back to the point where crime is a viable option help?

I don't give a fuck about facts because I don't need facts to prove what's happening. Maybe you all should come down and visit the lace for a year and see what you think of the community down there. Nice people with nothing because everyone else takes from them without a care. The problem isn't gun control, it's the reason to turn to guns in the first place.

Nope what? Page 8, exhibit 7. Learn to read.

Read:

Gary, Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.

By the way, I am not on the "right." Putin tries to pigeon hole me into a side of the political debate, and it doesn't work.

My stance is simple. In our Republic, we have unalienable Right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. A corollary to the Right to Life is the right to defend one's life. The right of self defense is paramount in a free society. As such, the right to be keep and bear arm, as codified by the 2nd Amendment, is essential to effectuate that right.

Read: "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott.

@bo sox -you need data to back up your claims. Ghost has it right. The data is inconclusive. I've done the tests myself in my econometrics class. Just because something seems to make sense for your area doesn't mean it should be universally applied to the country. If you can find studies correlating higher levels of gun ownership to higher levels of gun-related homicides, or even do the study yourself, then you will be taken seriously. But to be frank about it, the pro-gun side doesn't have to do much. All they have to do is say there's no correlation and the laws will remain in the books as they are.

Oh, and statistically significant correlation too. Preferably at the 95% level, but 90% level will do.

Bottom line, the United States Supreme Court agrees: District of Columbia v. Heller, and McDonald v. Chicago

My experiences don't require numbers. Fictional and skewed data among a survey doesn't get the job done either. You need sensibility to understand what's right, and that generally isn't exactly what the numbers say.

My family - not my blood family - is a community brittled by gun violence. Funny though how cops in that area arrest you for minute things and you can practically carry a pistol into prison with you. I don't need data to conclude that it's really, really sad.

There is a maxim in business 'change or die' and I've come to the conclusion that is also a metaphor for life itself.
If we just said no we want to conserve everything as it is and change nothing we would be by-passed and washed away by the speed of change, socially, technically, scientifically, financially.
This is what Conservatives stand for, they want to conserve things, this is one of the biggest threats to us all (that is not pre-supposing that being Liberal in a political context is the answer).
Conservative thinking is dangerous and it comes about when people get too comfortable, too complacent. As individuals we start to get conservative as we get older because we start to try and protect what we have rather than acquire more, we've got something to lose so we become all defensive and staid.
But if we took that staid logic into govt, into the boardroom, into our Town Halls, into hospitals and classrooms we would stagnate and die. Things change rapidly and if we are not changing with them we become part of the problem. Old thinking, out-of-date thinking.
The name GOP tells you everything, the Grand Old Party, full of pomp, arrogance and sense of history. What America needs is the CNP - Completely New Party full of new thinking, new ways to tackle old problems. Galvanizing modern day thinking and modern technology and ideas.
If you do what you always did you'll get what you always got.
Conservative thinking will send you all to hell in a handcart.
You need to re-think:-
Domestic & International Finance - stop the banks fucking you up
Foreign policy - stop torturing & bombing black people and Muslims, stop supporting Israel
Tax - raise enough taxes to pay for your spending or you're completely screwed
Guns - just say no, grow up now and stop with your right to bear arms bullshit
Education - it is not working properly for millions of people, it needs to change
Healthcare - it is not working properly for millions of people, it needs to change
Oil - find alternative energy sources asap
Stop brainwashing young Americans into thinking they live in the greatest country on Earth when the truth is they are the fattest most murderous polluting debt-ridden country on Earth, stop believing your own marketing bullshit hype.
And do yourself a favour for fuck sake, put that moron Romney back in his cage. He defines the word 'fucktard', I never really knew what it meant until he came along.
Conservative people and conservative thinking is the biggest threat to the world today, so to you old guys with your old boring right-wing rhetoric that is getting no-one nowhere the message is change or die.
Don't look to politicians for the answers, look within yourselves....

Read page 10 and 11 of the DoJ study where they explain why that estimate is ridiculously high.

Read the cases...read the studies, the books. It's all about the right to self defense.

I've got no problem with shotguns for hunting or home defense. I've got no problem with non-automatic rifles or bows for hunting.

And I've got no problem with pistols, as long as they're licensed, non-automatic, and open-carry.

"Gunshot incidents" happen. "Armed engagements" are usually avoidable.

More armed citizens would have saved a few ore lives and injuries...and limited it closer to just the idiot. REAL studies show an armed citizenry prevents gun crimes.

Grown up (civilized) countries have proper gun controls ....... grow up America, it's not the wild west any more.

So you're saying before the 1994 (or there about) the UK wasn't "grown up" nor civilized either? Get over yourself. The Right to Life, and by extension, the right to defend one's life is UNALIENABLE, i.e., it cannot be taken away. If you don't want to exercise your right to defend yourself, don't. But don't come over here and tell us that we're uncivilized for exercising an enumerated right that predates the Magna Carta.

Besides, we have "proper gun controls." We have background checks that are utilized to keep felons and mental patients from owning firearms. What more do you want? We live in a FREE SOCIETY, i.e., unless your actions DIRECTLY harm another person, or infringe up their rights, you're -- at least in theory -- free to do what you please.

'We live in a FREE SOCIETY, i.e., unless your actions DIRECTLY harm another person, or infringe up their rights, you're -- at least in theory -- free to do what you please.'

Do you really truly believe that........ you've bought the bullshit, 'The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave'.
Before you start to get better you have to recognize you have a problem.
The American Dream has been funded by money the USA has borrowed that it cannot afford to repay, the country is bankrupt !! You wouldn't know a balanced budget if it slapped you in the face.
What have you done with all that money you have borrowed, what has it bought USA Inc??
Like some testerone-filled teenager you've spunked the money on good times and now you have to face the bill but you can't because it's too depressing so you bury your head in the sand and pretend everything is going to be ok.
FREE ..... you call that FREE, what is freedom when you're broke. You keep electing Presidents who tell you that you don't have to pay the debts back.
If freedom to you is just about being able to walk around with a loaded semi-automatic weapon then that is a freedom for fuckwits surely ..... is there not more to life than looking down the barrel of a loaded gun.
Financially America is bankrupt yet all that seems to vex people is abortion and guns ..... for fuck sake wake up and smell the coffee. It's time to grow up and pay up.

Pay whom?

@ AverageWhiteBoy

"I've got no problem with shotguns for hunting or home defense. I've got no problem with non-automatic rifles or bows for hunting.

And I've got no problem with pistols, as long as they're licensed, non-automatic, and open-carry."

Define automatic. What are people going to carry? Revolvers? I can shoot and reload a double action revolver (a Colt Python for example) nearly as fast as my Colt Series 70 and it only holds one less round than the Series 70. What about autorevolvers? Are those "automatic"? What about semiautomatic pistols? Also, what's wrong with short-barreled rifles and shotguns? Those are ideal for home defense but are widely banned for some reason. What about assault shotguns that have no sporting use? Does a Remington 1100 semiautomatic shotgun fall into the "hunting" category? Why? Why not? What's a high-capacity magazine? 10 rounds? 30 rounds? 100 rounds? What about machine guns and selective fire weapons? Merely pointing my selective fire M39 in someone's general direction is enough for most sane people to piss their pants and immediately desist from whatever they were doing, no shooting required.

Regulating specific types of weapons does not work and only results in unnecessary, pointless, frivolous bans.

I have no problem with registering weapons and their owners. I would also be open to create some sort of graduated licensing program, starting with simple CC permits and going all the way up to open carry machine guns. But outright bans are wrong.

For a start Michigan Man you could pay Kestas $25 for having free use of this site , you free-loaders are too used to getting something for nothing.
Paypal will take your cash for you
Then we can talk about the 17 trillion

The 17 trillion isn't real money, nobody needs to "pay it back." Sorry.