I understand players who are upset because of suspected cheating, and their reaction. There is nothing more upsetting that to invest hours of your time, skill and then lose because of cheaters. It is understandable why cheating accusations have no place in forum, but maybe good for the game and site would be add some new customs to the site.

Mods are working hard to find players who are cheating, but their work is not seen so one could think they are not doing any work at all. I suggest that after player is banned because of cheating, mod put this information on the forum with link of games involved. If I met cheater in game, I would like to know that he got punished because of his actions.

@fedelc - You continue to violate the rule. Don't be such a fucktard. The mods have to *investigate* before acting. You're actions make it that much harder for them to conduct a fair investigation. Cut it out, asswipe!

Disclaimer: I am *not* a mod, but the forums are self-moderating and what better way to self-moderate than to call a fucktard a fucktard?

blow me

@ Draug: Keep it up and that disclaimer is going to be your signature, maybe even on your emails!

i'm sorry, i forgot to call you fucktard, imbecile and motherfucker, i never remember that's the only way you communicate with others, asswipe!

I was polite the first several times, fedel. You keep posting these accusations even though the mods have told you not to. I hope they ban your ass.

@Cach - I wanted to eliminate maple's constant drivel about my pretending to be a mod. :-)

no you weren't, your first comment was to STFU. so yeah, blow me. I was the one that talked to you with respect several times, even if you didn't show you deserved it. and if they ban me for this, i'm really better off. if this is a site that bans people for accusing others of cheating, and doesn't ban cheaters, then i don't want to be a part of it.

and i expected at least an acknowledgement of my email, and maybe a statement that they will conduct some investigation. they didn't respond. and these guys keep cheating. keep on defending guys like thiese. It's obvious breaking the forum rules is more important than breaking the rules of the game.

Yes, I said literally, "STFU" about it. It's an acronym for, amongst other things, "Shut the Frell Up" (Frell being a phrase used in Farscape) and "Shut The Frack Up" (Frack being from Battlestar Galactica). It was only your mind that jumped to "Shut The Fuck Up". It was a light hearted jab that reminded you posting accusations is verboten.

My second used a word that even Disney uses in cartoons now (watch Aladdin to see a reference to a donkey with two asses). That was the closest to a swear word I used in it.

Yet you keep insisting on breaking these rules... The Mods are under no obligation to respond to you or to send you confirmation that they are looking at it. In fact, they have said before that they choose *not* to say why the do what they do or even to point out, in the case of multis, who the related multis were, especially if they are giving one a free pass to show their regret and redmption.

So let them do their jobs and quit mucking up the forum with your accusations.

fedelc, the mods here are volunteers, they are not paid and this is a free site. Stop bitching and play a game if you want. Whining because the mods have not replied to your problem ahead of everyone else who's submitted a request through legitimate means is just selfish and foolish. There is most likely a backlog of requests right now. If it turns out your accusation against these players is false you should be banned for slandering their reputation. Which is exactly why all accusations are to be made in private. Here is an idea though, if you are annoyed with those particular players...STOP FUCKING JOINING GAMES THEY ARE IN! And don't give me the shit that they are anon games and "you couldn't know who was in them" organize a game on the forum and you'll never have to play with them again. Simple as that.

ok jmo, of course i only play with them when i join an anon game. if i go to the forum, it's harder to get the neccesarry players to fill a game. so in that matter, there's really not much to do. the only reasonable thing would be to ban the players who repeatedly cheat. i absolutely agree that if these guys turned out not to be cheating(i would love to see how that happens) i should be banned. I know mods are volunteers, i respect them, and i do not judge them for taking their time. but at least a short email stating they received the complaint and will look into it is not much to ask, is it?

and seriously, i know i'm breaking a semi-reasonable rule here about not posting accusations in the forum, i get that you will go after me, and it seems fair. however, is it really that big a rule? i haven't seen a single one of you complain about users cheating. is it really more important to keep a forum rule than to keep the substance of the game? really?

and draugnar, if you'd like to discuss this seriously, i'd be open to it. but if you choose to continue to insult me, and i'm quoting aladdin here, STFU

I don't complain about cheats on the forum because I send those *to the mods*. They may take time but they do act on them. I may also then post "Hey mods, check your email" messages to make certain they know a new one is there, but I certainly don't lay it out here because *I respect their rules*. How can I expect them to seriously follow up on my request, if I choose to ignore their request and post cheating accusations. You get what you give and you are giving them shit by not respecting their one and only hard and fast rule about the forums. If I were them (I'm not) I would refuse to investigate because you won't stop breaking the rules.

@fedelc

I have already responded in this very thread, so you *know* the mods are aware of this case. We are volunteers and handle as many cases as we can as quickly as we can. However, we like to give all members a chance to explain themselves, because diplomacy is a complicated and subtle game and sometimes what looks like cheating is actually not.

We do not allow cheating accusations on the forum because too many innocent people get caught up in a witch hunt. If you were concerned we didn't get your email, you could have started a new thread, asking why we hadn't responded. Instead, you decided to break the rules 2 more times, in a hope to bully us into bumping your case to the top of our list. *You* are the only cheater here, until this case is looked into and it is determined by the mods if those you accuse are, in fact, cheating.

The mods try very hard to keep this site fun for everyone and while I understand cheaters are frustrating, the appropriate action is *not* to break rules until you get what you want. I'm not allowed to dock points for making cheating accusations, and since you insist on breaking the rules, I am forced to come to the rather extreme threat of banning your account if you make another cheating accusation.

Here's hoping fedelc does it again...

@abgemacht

First of all, I thank you for your time and thank you for addressing me with respect. It seems not all people do so. Secondly, I'd really hadn't realized you were a mod, so I wasn't aware you were into this. Of course I understand it's a process that takes time, because of all things you just said, but a simple response saying "we're on it, we'll let you know. Don't keep breaking the forum rules, etc" would have been fine. Nevertheless, i know it's not an excuse. I'm only a little concerned to be called a cheater, since I didn't brake any game rules. Surely breaking a forum rule could not be considered cheating, as it has no impact in the game whatsoever.
Anyway, I'll stop all this now that i know you guys are into it, thanks again for your time.

I tried to make my first post in this thread as official as possible, but clearly it wasn't enough. You can click on user's names to go to their profiles to see if they are a mod.

We reply to emails when one of the mods starts investigating it. Although that may mean there is some time between responses, it makes it much easier for us. If a mod replies to an email, but doesn't have time to actually look into it, it's hard for us to tell if that case is being managed and it could ultimately be lost. By not opening emails until we can actually start investigating, we are able to lose very few cases.

Posting cheating accusations in the forum is a very serious offense. Consider this: We are playing in a game and I am losing. I could post in the forum that your are a cheater and I have some secret proof. I am now metagaming because I'm using an outside fact to try and influence my game. Additionally, people may read my OP and think you are a cheater, never bothering to open the thread to see you were exonerated.

I'm not saying that was your intention, but it is too hard to separate public cheating accusations into different types, so we don't allow any.

Maybe this supports the notion that mod flags should be back?

I know, i'm sorry, it was obviously my fault I didn't realize you are a mod, I wasn't blaming you or giving an excuse, just explaining what happened. What you say makes sense, but again, it's hard to know you got the complaint or not. And I understand what you say, i know this is a reasonable rule, but I did not give out the guy's user at first, he came in an commented voluntarily. I also did not post while the game was being played. I waited for the game to finish before posting this or sending an email to the mods, so i clearly wasn't looking to get any game advantage, other than to play fairly. Anyway, I get what you say, I'm sorry for breaking the rules, and I truly hope justice can be served, so that everybody can play fair and have fun.

@tom yes, that would be useful for newcomers like me.

I agree, having mod badges would be great. Until then, I'll try to make it more clear I'm a mod.

@Draugnar, please stop being such an asshole to people. You play diplomacy so you must know that verbally abusing someone is hardly a way to get them to do what you want.

fedel, to me, seems like a good guy who is frustrated. We want good people playing games here whenever possible and if people continue to be treated so poorly by you, they will likely not have the motivation to return and play more games. The more good people the better. Does this make sense to you?

I have no idea what kind of self-validation you get by being so abusive. But judging by your commitment to the site, good diplomacy is something you value. I certainly hope the satisfaction you get from being the forum bully makes up for the detriment to the site you continuously cause.

And not to make my point above lost, I also wanted to say that the mods do do a very good job. I have seen them catch many a cheater. The people under discussion in this thread are quite clearly cheating at this game and at this site. If the forums are really un-moderated,how can supposed "game-mods" have the authority to tell people what they can and can't post (i.e. cheating accusations).

I am not arguing for cheating accusations to be allowed. I understand why they are not. but I don't think you all, moderators posting here included, have the right to treat fedel as you have.

@fedel - In my second post in this thread I told you abgemacht was a mod. You were aware so stop lying.

@Lando - Kestas included it int the official site rules. He owns the site. Are you saying he has no right to declare forum rules? And it is self moderated, not unmoderated with the additional caveat of one specific rule that allows the mods to completely ban some one who ignores their requests.

Right, that was my secondary point that I was hoping wouldn't cause my principal one to be lost. I hope you can find the time to respond to that.

I am fine with kestas setting rules on his site. My problem is the treatment people receive in the forums for not brushing up on their webdip articles of incorporation.

@Lando

The very first reply to this thread was Tom explaining how to find the site rules, where posting cheating accusations is clearly stated as being against the rules. I understand that finding the rules is hard, which is why I'm usually very understanding, but in this thread, there was no excuse.

And, I agree that we should be nicer to new members, but that is something I have no control over.

I was directing that point at Draugnar, specifically. Some people (Tom) are great people. But sometimes it isn't a Tom Bombadil that replies first. When people like Draugnar, jamie99 and jmo get involved, it becomes brutal.

Maybe it would be nice for the mods, whom they are constantly seeking approval of, to remind them of general human politeness once and a while. I am sure being kind makes good common sense (a rule!).