Dear Darwyn,
You're moving ever so closer to the top of that short list.
I don't mute people I disagree with. I actually love to argue so much, I made it my professional life. The point is that a lot of people here forget the first rule of any good dialogue (arguments and debates included): to listen. If I'm being insulted, on top of being ignored every time I contribute to a debate, there's no point seeking dialogues with people like that.

Forums are not made great by freedom alone. The wind roaming freely has no inherent value. It becomes valuable when properly harnessed. And the same is true of our freedom: there's no value in saying all you want if no one is there to partake in it. And no one is there, when you ignore them by not listening.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I just don't see how a mute button is anything more than the blankey you held as a child to comfort yourself.

Perhaps you are the exception Cachimbo...but look at what Draugnar just did. Muted me cuz I indirectly called him a fucking baby? I think that pretty much proves my point.

Tolerance should always trump sensitivity.

But anyway, how do you keep track of threads while other people are talking to people that you cannot see?

The whole concept seems strange to me. If I read something I don't like, I move on and let others engage in the stupidity while I sit back and watch.

@Darwyn - I unmuted you now because I still want access to the Pizza v. Taco thread. It was a great comic thread with some serious potential for hypothetical examination of motivation.

Anyhow, with regards to tolerance and sensitivity. You say "Tolerance should always trump sensitivity." so I am asking now what your view is of hate speech laws? Should I be allowed to walk up to a black man and call him an 'N' and the girl on his arm a 'Ho' and him be arrested for beating the fuck out of me (Tolerance taking precedent and him not showing it)? Or should I have to take responsibility for what I say (sensitivity [and common sense] taking precedent and me havign to asnwer for being insensitive)?

Also, you should realize that my time is valuable to me, so having to sift through, say a dozen crap threads posted by Tettleton overnight is a waste of my time. The mute button has a certain value to me in that it saves me time just not having to see Tettleton's crap threads.

And I was a bit quick to mute you if only because you, like Putin, actually do contribute something to most of the conversations in which you participate. Tettleton rarely does and krellin and mapleleaf never do.

TC is the only one I currently have on mute - he barks incessantly and offers nothing of value... and never ever listens. 1Broken or whatever his name is, is definitely on my short list. Chances are good that I never mute another person... for me it is a bit of a last resort after I and/or others have tried everything else.

Draugner, if you walked up to a black man and called him the 'N' word (I'm being sensitive by not actually using the word) and he beats the crap out of you, then you are both idiots.

He only beat the tar out of you because he *allowed* that word to bother him. He had the option of walking away. Did he not? Or would you tell me that he is obligated to act every time someone calls him that? Because that would be ridiculous.

seriously, fuck sensitivity because where does it end? Should I be sensitive to the woman with giant tits and a low cut dress by NOT looking at them? Hell no! She had better be tolerant of men ogling her.

If you can't learn to tolerate things...then I'm not sure what to tell you. There are always options with which to tolerate. But sensitivity pigeon holes *everyone*.

I keep mapleleaf unmuted simply to keep the option to voice opposition to his hate speech... Seems that krellin, like Darwyn, contributes from time to time, but I may be mistaken.

And on that note, Darwyn, why don't you walk away?

Muting is stupid and immature.
Stop it or I ll spank your asses kids.

No.... YOU'RE stupid and immature.
And my daddy makes better cookies than yours.

When the mute feature first came out it seemed a bit petty... like "liking" and "unliking" people in Facebook... or maintaing a list as my daughter did when she was in fourth grade of who her best and second best, etc. friends were - that would change every few days. I've come around to see some limited utility in it.

hellalt - You can't spank my ass in a game... What makes you think you can do it in person? ;-)

It's a bigger target in person.

Of course it is. I've got "40 something spread". But then, the bigger they are, the heavy they weigh sitting on your chest. :-)

@Draugnar: Its going to be pretty hard to participate in political debates when everyone but you participating is muted.

If you want to take part in interesting political debates its best not to mute the opposition so you can actually read what they say...

But like I said earlier, there is no 'opposition' to speak of, in terms of a dialogue's dynamics, if your interlocutor does not oppose your views (which involves actually listening to the person expressing them) but rather chooses to impose his repetitively, peppering some ad hominem arguments here and there.
Show me but one exchange where TC actually took the time to consider arguments thrown against his views, and I will consider unmuting him.
Krellin can also act like that, but he will, at times, give you the impression that he's heard what you said. I have thus not felt the need to mute him as I believe he can actually oppose to what I have to say.

(By the way, is he participating in this thread? I wouldn't know, you see....!)

Draugnar, I have spanked your ass in uncountable games...

You can unlike people on facebook?!

I've never muted and agree w/ EB Hall, who said "I may disagree with your annoying, repetitive words, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say them."

Of the times people SAY they mute, only 5% of them actually do it.

you can tell when someone says I muted this person on a thread that that person created...

"You can unlike people on facebook?! "
Um... I meant, "unfriend"... but I also mean "unlike" (you can do the latter to articles, organizations and such that you previously "liked").

@Fasces - I don't mute everyone who opposes my view. And I even have a couple muted who I politically agree with but I can't stand the way they troll and overeact. For instance, Tettleton and I aren't that different politically. He's a bit more (OK, a *lot* more) right of me, but he is so inflammatory and likes ad hominem attacks (like the whole Obama calls for more deaths thread) that I just can't stomach to read what he writes. Putin, on the other hand, is diametrically opposed to most of my points of view, but he usually has something to contribute in the beginning of threads until he gets bogged down and latches on to a flase premise like a bulldog, so he is worth reading and I have decided to keep him off mute after all. Krellin and maple are just offensive.

It seems most people agree with me, it's more of a "signal to noise ratio" decision than anything else.

I don't really mind Krellin or mapleleaf because every now and then they amuse me, and they're not pretending to be something they're not, but then again, unlike Draug and SC, I've never really been a "target" of theirs. The 1whatever guy who just popped up, I'm thinking it was a drunken day of trolling that's likely over now, so I'm not too worried about sticking a mute on him, but if it continues, that's subject to change.

I find Draugnar apparent pride in muting people -- me in particular -- to be an admission to a rather significant character defect: he does not have the emotional capacity to tolerate an opposing viewpoint - and this idea is echoed in other's rational for muting. His suggestion that I never have anything to contribute <<"And I was a bit quick to mute you if only because you, like Putin, actually do contribute something to most of the conversations in which you participate. Tettleton rarely does and krellin and mapleleaf never do. ">> is ludicrous at best.

What he *means* to say, but most likely is too emotionally mature to admit, is that I don't have anything to contribute **that he agrees with** and thus, not having his ego stroked (Oh, you are sooo right Draug...) he chooses mute instead.

I will *never* mute anyone, no matter how ridiculous or insulting that are -- and for all the complaints that I throw insults, I generally get no valid attempts to respond to discussion points I make, but simply find a barrage of insults. It's rather ironic, really...In fact, looking above, Draugnar, having muted me, chooses to not ignore me, but to continually attack my character.

Now I ask you: Who is the least mature amongst us?

I don't mute anyone. People don't talk enough in-game to justify muting them. Plus, if I get a string of expletives in response to a really nasty, poison-dagger stab, I usually forward it to my (new) allies with an accompanying "lol." Helps build team spirit, you understand.

As for the forums, there are plenty of ideas that I see thrown around on here that I very much disagree with - some, especially, that I USED to agree with are very hard to pass up as opportunities for a good ol'-fashioned down and dirty internet political flamewar. Those are fun every once in a while.

But only once in a while. The rest of the time, I've got the self-control to just ignore the really insane stuff and take it as an inevitable cost of free speech, which I pay gladly.

@krellin, you said: "I generally get no valid attempts to respond to discussion points I make, but simply find a barrage of insults." You may want to reflect on this... 1) I *have* and I'm sure others *have* attempted to respond to your discussion points in a clear, calm and collected manner - at least some of the time, though admittedly, 2) we sometimes simply respond to your more ridiculous posts with sarcasm or irritation or whatever... You may want to listen harder to hear cases of #1 and may consider why you get so many cases of #2. It's nothing personal - we don't know you from a hole in the wall... it's got to be something you say - and/or something you're failing to hear... if truly you "never" hear "valid attempts". Either everyone in the world is wrong or you are mistaken. When presented with such a question, I figure the latter is more likely.

@Dexter -- Oh, I exaggerate. Sometimes people do. Sometimes I reply specifically to peoples posts, and then get accused to not replying. The bottom line is, I generally hold a significantly different viewpoint from the others....which is why I am involved in the discussion....so when I make a point that contradicts the prevailing point of view, I get called a troll, a moron, etc. I get accused of regurgitating from Fox news ( which I can't even watch -- no cable, no dish...). My supposed stupid answers are thought out...they are just *different*, and thus called stupid, trolls, whatever. This, frankly, asinine assertion that I do not listen to others and reply is simply wrong. I just don't reply as you wish. After so many responses of simply being called a troll, etc, I give up and turn to insults...because it amuses me.

I assure you I can write coherent replies. I also see people claiming TC has nothing to contribute...and yet he is one of the *MOST* articulate and informed people on this site coming from a conservative view point. that idea that he has nothing to contribute, again, supports my notion that most of you don't *want* to read an opposing view, and thus fail to acknowledge it as a valid viewpoint....which kind of makes your participation in a forum thread pointless, unless you are looking to circle-jerk with a bunch of like-minded yes-men.

As far as "everyone is wrong or I am mistaken"....what am I supposed to do when people around me hold a different viewpoint? You actually think *anyone* on these threads simply changes their mind, admits they are wrong, and goes away when confronted with a different belief? You suggestion is that I don't hold a different viewpoint, or don't express it. That is simply idiotic.

@dexter -- for example, you will note I addressed you post almost point for point....as I *often* do to posts. You, true to form, will not disagree with everything I say, claim that I am mistaken and ignore me....then claim that I never contribute or answer to people. You, in short order, will most likely prove my prior point...

I never mute in game. That is asking to be beat as one who was your enemy may now be an ally. Diplomacy, like politics, makes strange bedfellows.