I'm sorry, but I've been sitting here 15 minutes trying to wrap my mind around how anyone could fathom that Osama being shot and killed could be just as tragic as all the lives he took in the 9-11 attack, which is what was basically said in the OP. I'm sorry, but if that's how you truly feel, I'm disgusted with you being an American as well. Oh, and just so you know, justice is arbitrated in the court of law to US citizens, the rights we have as citizens of the US don't apply to foreigners such as the afore mentioned Osama, so I'm not really sure what kind of rights you were wanting to give this terrorist in our court system that he wasn't entitled to.

Hey J, first you should take a course on reading comprehension

"But that doesn't make it any less tragic. A human being, misguided as he may have been, but a human being nonetheless, with feelings, thoughts, and desires was murdered today."

sorry, what did I miss in the comprehension of the transhumanist message that all lives taken are equal?

I feel there is a difference between the catharsis of eliminating a threat an celebrating the death of a murder seeking revenge upon a (in his opinion) unjust nation. The entire situation is so fucked up that it seems hard to celebrate...

"the rights we have as citizens of the US don't apply to foreigners such as the afore mentioned"

Hold up, so if a foreign national commits a crime in this country we can kill that person extra-judicially?

"ell, how much sympathy do YOU have for a bully who, after meeting someone bigger and stronger and getting a taste of his own medicine, runs crying to the same authorities he defied."

Gaddafi is no more "bully" than Lincoln. And yeah I'd say when your three grandchildren are killed you have a right to cry. And when the laws prohibiting assassination are violated you have a right to protest. If you allow for assassination against heads of state in the middle of a civil war you make it open season on your own head of state. Apparently your desire for revenge outweighs your consideration for long-term consequences.

"GETTING ALONG LARGELY! Even if you do think it's a bit barbaric, don't you think it's nice the nation isn't divided in pettiness for a change?"

We exchange pettiness for barbarism, brilliant. How about decency instead?

Surely Osama was killed as per any combatant in a war? How were they supposed to arrest him? "This is the police. Come out with your hands up. ??? Somehow I don't think that was going to work. On the other hand if he wanted to surrender I am sure that could have been arranged. The Americans would have loved to have had the opportunity for a trial, I am sure, but it was unlikely this was going to ever be arranged.

"We exchange pettiness for barbarism, brilliant. How about decency instead?"

Decency is overrated, as is humanity...and the two are imcompatible, anyway.

Desire-pursuing machines are not decent, they are...well, machines.

Theories and philosophies are nice, but there's a time for sophistry and a time for emotion--this is a time for the latter.

+1 spyman

+1 spyman (and the Mets won! I know you're a fan, to me, that just adds to the night, a New York team winning...and the team that won the first game after 9/11, now the team that won the first game after Osama's End!) :)

"Theories and philosophies are nice, but there's a time for sophistry and a time for emotion--this is a time for the latter."

Spoken like a true demagogue.

@obi

But, do you agree it would have been nice if the reaction of the American people had instead been relief at the elimination of a threat, solemn remembrance of those who have died, and reflection upon what our role in having such enemies has been, rather than this barbaric celebration that is indistinguishable from winning a sporting event?

well to be fair, obi doent see it as destinguishable from winning a sporting event (the mets won and we killed osama guys, whoopie, its human nature!)

@abgemacht:

In time, yes...

But I think it's perfectly fair to expect people to react this way when first hearing it, they'll eventually settle down and be more restrained, but also remember, they've ahd a decade to be solemn and remember the fallen on THEIR side--for one night, I think they're justified in cheering the death of the man who caused all that loss.

And come on, now, I'm NOT saying the Mets winning and this event is concurrent and the same...

Don't ruin the Mets winning for me, it doesn't happen often! ;)

I merely said I think it a nice bit of poetry that the team that won the first game after 9/11 in extra innings, New York's team, did the same on the day of Osama's death...

Just a nice mirroring.

Perhaps this is an age-gap thing?

You were in 3rd-4th grade for 9/11, right? Do you really have a good memory of those events? I do, and I find anything that reminds me of them removes my desire to celebrate.

To be murder, it has to be unjustified. He would have needed to be innocent, something he wasn't. No, this wasn't murder. This was justified. Now, the innolcents who lost their lives on the planes, in the WTC, and at the Pentagon... They were murdered and he financed their murders making him complicit.

Uh no, if you go out on the street and kill a child molester it's still murder. The widespread ignorance/disregard of the law is rather appalling and I'm not even a legal absolutist.

Now, one can reasonably argue this was in the course of combat, but it has nothing to do with innocence.

Abgemacht +1

I agree. Seeing the footage of the towers tears me up. Even now just thinking about it makes me upset. No, there is nothing to celebrate even 10 years on. There was no partying in my household. Just a solemn rememberance of the tragedy and a prayer that he actually was caught and this wasn't a faked politcal stunt.

@abgemacht:

I was in 5th grade--age-wise could've been in 6th, started school a year late--and I remember the day and attacks very vividly, especially the second plane, I still rmemeber coming up to get dressed, something catching my eye, walking to my left and into my parent's room to see their small TV just in time to watch the plane move towards the tower, like it was magnetized, for five seconds, and then...

Later that morning, heard the Pentagon was hit.

Heard the Towers fall on the radio with classmates just before and just at the outset of classes that day.



I remember, and I remember the anguished looks on everyone's faces at the loss.

Knowing the man who did that is now dead, and those victims are consoled...yes, I'll drink to that.

So you think putting a convicted killer to death is murder, Putin? This was a military action and no more a murder than the death of any enemy soldier. This was an authorized termination and no more a murder than putting a convicted killer to death. This was not a murder.

Again, I'm not saying everyone SHOULD go out and have an Osama Death Day Marti Gra, simply that celebrations and cheering "USA! USA!" is understandable...

And I'll take THAT, a crowd at a baseball game taking time out from boos and jeers to all chant for the same team, so to speak, for the Red, White, and Blue...

To give osama all the credit for 9/11 is a gross simplification, which is perhaps why I'm less enthusiastic than others. Also, I find it disheartening that this is the type of thing that America requires to be temporarily unified.

"So you think putting a convicted killer to death is murder, Putin?"

No, there is a legal process. This had none. This act being 'murder' or 'not being murder' has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

"This was a military action and no more a murder than the death of any enemy soldier."

I agree, and already suggested as much.

"This was an authorized termination and no more a murder than putting a convicted killer to death."

Wrong, the key operative phrase is "convicted". This event occurred completely outside the legal process, so it has nothing in common with sentencing a convicted criminal to death.

"This was not a murder."

If you agree that this was a military action. But killing 'guilty' people outside the legal process is murder in any other circumstance.

"I find it disheartening that this is the type of thing that America requires to be temporarily unified."

THAT I can agree on...

I like the fact the nation feels unified, but it'd be nice if it didn't require such lengths as an attack, either by us or against us...

He adnitted his guilt. Therefore he walked into the courtroom of the world and said guilty. Sentence was passed by the President of the US as well as other world leaders. He had his trial and confessed. But irregardless, we agree that as a military action, it was not murder.

why do you like the fact obi, its an obviously completely artificial outpouring of support that will be over in a week, are you just a big ball of shmaltzy over-sentimental bullshit tied together with invisible heart strings and sunbeams?

Jesus Christ

Oh I also believe there was a trial and he was convicted in abstentia. The sentence was death.

Smiley, at the risk of you keeling over in a fit of righteous transhumanism, i'll point out that an average of more than 150,000 people die every day on this planet.
Oh, and why be sorry for Osama? He's up there defiling 70 virgins, having the time of his life! Or have you no respect for his beliefs?