Hey now, we should only not offend people who aren't here to offend back.

However, I can call Cyrano all manner of names, because he is present in this thread at this time and can offend me in return.

But I wouldn't call Cyrano unkind things, he's too cool:]

"I do not agree to religion being a major cause to all wars (or even all major ones). This is false. People fight wars and have fought wars for all manner of reasons."
I disagree, the motives behind most wars is more of a case of our beliefs because we cannot see into the minds of those that started the wars. I believe religion played a major role in all of the wars in the world. My reasoning for this is that in the middle ages (I'm aware that this happened before hand but there is more of it happening in the middle ages then any other period of time and we have documentation to back it up) tons of societies of people waged war on each other for the simple reason of religion. I'm going to use my favorite example of this because I know it so well, the Teutonic Knights attacked tons of villages and towns killing thousands of people because they were the wrong sect of the same religion.

@ Ice

How do you propose to separate the wars for which religion was the issue from those in which religion was merely an afterthought used to garner support? Would you agree that governments and political parties are also a main cause of wars and that they should not be followed? If not how do you justify the attack on religion and not coupling it with an attack on secular government?

sorry, not moron, uneducated child. Please don't take offence, i didn't call you a moron, i said you shouldn't talk like one.

Heh, thanks Vamo! Right back atcha buddy! As for Tantris, check my earlier post, been there, answered that. Let's move on shall we?

@Orathaic he did infact come up with a test to prove it (allegedly).
@Cyrano what gives you the right to call someone else's views and opinions misguided? They differ from yours that makes them no less valid.

"As are extremist christian groups."
Yes, I'd like to omit them from being classified as Christians. In the same likeness, some Muslims have declared the extremist groups as heretics.

I don't remember the verse reference or exactly how it's worded-"Real faith produces good works." Those who say they are Christian, but don't actually act like it, probably don't believe in Jesus Christ as they claim they do.

@Cyrano: You only explained why it is good to worship him, not why "The only path to heaven is through me" or "Thou shalt not" or any of the multitudes of rules that we are told will damn us.

Of course there are attrocities created by Religion, is the driving force of most peoples lives. That doesn't mean that we should abandon it Ice. As for the Tuetonic Knights, it was the middle ages, everyone was killing everybody on the slightest provocation, hardly a shining moment for mankind.

@Iceray, yes but he's not able to test it, because its all hypothetical at the moment.

it would be some amazing new science (if you're talking about the theory i think you're talkign about) but it is merely a refinement of our current understanding, thus getting closer to the Truth.

@Crazy I believe that people use other reasons to get the support they want but one of the core reasons that they do this is religion. I really have not found a way to prove or disprove my theory as of yet. I think wars are fought for many reasons but religion is the only reason that has been present since the dawn of time.
@Orathaic if I said I was offended would you give me an e-hug?

Alright ZaZa, then let's not refer to the "Muslims" that hate American as Muslims anymore then shall we?

Alright, "The only path to heaven is through me": If you don't do as GOD says (i.e. not killing people, helping others, healing the sick, clothing the hungry) you won't be happy, and niether wil others. GOD will also understandably not want you around. The "Thou shalt nots" are guidelines for moral behavior that any society can imbrace. The "Thou shalt nots" about worshiping idols relates to the fact that most religious movements of the time were unashamed in their advocacy of violence.

Yes, vamo. Most Muslims are just like you and me- kind, caring, and loving people.

@Zaza regardless of how others view them they do claim to follow that particular religion and are thus filed under that category although you'll notice I did say Extreme as a means to differentiate between them.
@Cyrano But the thing is we have secrete societies now that do the exact same thing (on a much smaller scale) and have since forever.
@Orathaic I've been following this story avidly, I'm very interested in what this man is doing and I completely agree it would be amazing to see. Although I would like you to define truth

Sweet, ZaZa and I agreed:]

Also, I am very flattered by the high regard you apparently hold me in by referring to me as kind, caring, and loving:]

Of course religion has in some way motivated all wars: religion has created every moral code that exists. Period. So every time someone goes to war because something is wrong, or atrocities are being comitted, they making a moral statement influenced by their religious beliefs. This is an arguement for the truth of faith, not the lack of truth in fiat, really don't see where you're going with this...

Vam is not kind caring or loving, Vam is evil! (kidding, much love to Vam)

@Cyrano: So, are you saying there is no heaven or are you saying that god wouldn't want you around even though he won't actually do anything to stop your behavior that he knows you will do? So, you get a dog that hasn't been trained, and you will kill it instead of train it? In fact, you will hide yourself so the dog doesn't know you are there, and then kill it when it misbehaves?

@Iceray: religion has not been present from the dawn of time, economic reasons have.

People fight over food and water when it is in short supply.
Women may be the next reason humans would fight each other, religion only becomes an issue when you have time to ask questions like 'why are we here?' and don't spend most of your time hunting/gathering food.

@Cyrano I don't know anymore either I tried to spin it off one way and it got completely turned around on me and I'm not sure where it's headed but it looks like an interesting debate getting there.

What secret societies comitt such acts? Are we talking KKK/ Wesboro Baptist Church? Cuz those don't qualify as religion, they're nut cases. Plus, they're hardly secret...

@Orathaic but religion has been present since the dawn of time, people used it to explain everything that happens around them that they cannot themselves explain, and if the bible is true (debatable) then religion was present before the birth of man.

@Cyrano: Why will god not work to stop those like the KKK/Westboro Baptist Church? Why would he have allowed the possibility of them existing?

Tantris, he did do something, he provided us with a concience and moral guidelines to live a just life. We are not dogs, we were given free will. Without that, our decisions would mean nothing. There is a heaven, and most certainly a hell. If we refuse to do what is obvious, and behave in a humane way to our fellow man, then we will be punushed, simple as that.

@Cyrano HAHAHAHAHAHA no no they don't have to be American societies, all over the world it happens. It's the people hiding in the underground (like the Muslim extremists) that do it.

@Cyrano Dogs have free will

Why would god let his chosen people be subject to possibly the worst treatment that any group of people has ever had to endure throughout the course of their existance?

How the fuck should we know?

Free will answers your last post. We're not puppets, if he destroyed them, or stopped their followers from doing as they do, then the choice to do right would mean nothing. It wouldn;t be a choice at all.