Tolstoy said, "Further proof that the hands at the helm either have no idea what they're doing or are deliberately aiming straight for that iceberg."

Or maybe, they are steering as hard as they can to avoid the thing, and the ship is only turning slowly. Economic pessimism is always, in priniciple, a self-fulfulling prophecy. So cut the doom and gloom and do something about it yourself, such as, say positive things to people with money and spend money yourself.

Oh and buy the cheap stocks.

I mean, they're sure to go back up one day. And that much sooner if people follow your lead.

I admit that I don't know much about this subject. I'm currently taking a university course on microeconomics but it's fairly introductory.

I've seen all the videos, many of them Ron Paul related, about the fiat currency, and the debt scheme, and the Fed, and the gold standard and all that. I'm just wondering if someone with more economics experience could explain to me whether or not what Darwyn says is actually true. It seems too nefarious to be true, but perhaps that's my misguided optimism. =)

Also, great one Dr.Oct. I'll have to try that one out.

Dr. Oct has made the most important contribution to this thread so far.

I'm still curious as to how all of this works, especially if the market does close. Does it just stay closed, and will this mean for the average citizen?

@Chrispminis and @dangermouse

Thanks! Its really a surprisingly decent drink for something that started as a joke and then was invented in a few minutes.

Also, I know it's not just me mentioning, but really guys, I don't think civilization is going to collapse, that was just a joke.

also @Sicarius, what evidence do you have that under 10,000 is "the point of no return"? It's dipped below 10,000 before in this decade and came back up, which would indicate to me that it's just an arbitrary number that we attache some small amount of significance too, but clearly not some inevitable portent of doom. Not saying it won't drop further for a while, but in the long run, it'll make it's way back up.

Centurian; thanks, didn't catch that response the first time. I have to say it didn't clarify much for me though ;-) I just don't get this phantom money business, but I'll have a look for some of the books recommended

One of the odd effects of this downturn is that the Russian stock market has lost 48 per cent of its value, and we did not even have to fire a shot.

I think that this guy knows what he's talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aGoF5tilBk

I think that this man pretty clearly points out why its needed.

'it' being the main street safety net :P

I beg to differ. All the main street safety net is doing is shifting debt around...from the banks to the taxpayer. It's mandating that John Q. Taxpayer be sent the bill for the banks and government mistakes. The debt still remains and only prolongs the inevitable. Fighting inflation with inflation is like trying to put out fire with fire.

What is 'needed' is the return of the high paying jobs that left these shores long ago by Congressional tax credits that made it easy to do.

This isn't a credit problem, it's a solvency problem. Bring back or create jobs and debt will go down. Until then, America is hosed. That's my humble opinion.

Thucydides,

I don't dispute that this may be a good buying opportunity. I don't have a crystal ball, and the worst may be just around the corner.

But I do know that sitting down, shutting up, and only thinking about bunnies and rainbows is not going to make anything better. It's that kind of head-in-the-sand only-think-happy-thoughts strategy that got is into this mess in the first place - people were absurdly optimistic about prices in the various bubble markets, thinking they were only going to keep going up - leading to serious misallocations of capital and inflation fueled by debt as people borrowed money to 'buy in' at (they figured) essentially no cost to them because interest rates were so low.

I have no problem with positive thinking, but there has to be some reality behind it. Otherwise, you end up like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxQgXgS5G3c&feature=related

Oh, no, I'm not talking about blind financial strategy. What I'm talking about is laymen like us creating worldwide panic through word of mouth, not investors and their money, and executives and their decisions. Different matter entirely, I think. So I don't disagree with you, exactly.

9,437.23

well the dow just ended with 8,579.19 (a 7.3% change). So that stock market crash should be coming any time soon, especially since it only has roughly 79 points to fall, and since all point changes seem to be in the hundreds...if we lost 676 points today tomorrow might be the magic day =(

I know it's a slight change, but as I'm not an economist I don't feel I should shout out my under-educated opinion on the matter. However, I am interested to the long-term future of the metal prices. These are going to go up and up over the next few years as cost-efficient sources diminish. And that's saying nothing of the Chinese buying up recyclable metals...

dow is at about 8300

and lo and behold, all us markets are closed

Sicarius got his stock market crash? sweet

something troubling, I'm in flagstaff, I just saw about 10-11 DHS prison cars, eastbound

I'm glad I heard about the Revolution from you first, Sicarius. Good to know we're just a week or so away from "A Clockwork Orange." This is fearmongering, pure and simple. Good grief.

dhs?

dont they make sofas :p

department of homeland security

Good God, take a joke!

you're in for a very big wake-up call my friend

Do you like living like this? Have some faith in America's basic goodness. If the government starts rounding up people I'll eat my shoe. You're nuts.

living like what?
dude I'm a perpetual traveler, how do you live?

if americans start getting rounded up you'll be eating a size 12 combat boot not your pair of birkenstocks or nikes or whatever

your a fool

if the government is smart about this bailout. the us government could make a lot of money from interest. and bring the market up much higher but it would take time. and for a while it will really suck for the tax payers but in the long run it could help us a lot. it depends on if the politicians have there heads in their asses or not.