Exactly right Brad. JFK really didn't do much. Johnson did it all, but I lumped them together under the 'bad tier' on my list.

Nothing corrupt about US Grant himself. His policies on reconstruction were spot on but the congress lost its nerve and he southern democrats, once allowed back into politics fucked up the rest plunging the south into an abyss

I always read his admin was very corrupt?

ND:

What about Quincy Adams?

Wasn't that great

not as good as his daddy

Reagan didn't increase tax revenues through his policies, he was just lucky to be president when day trading became popular. All those suckers churning stocks to get rich and not thinking as short term trading they were paying at the highest tax rate.

Reagan fought quick wars against weak forces, but when the marine barrack was truck bombed in Lebanon he ran the troops out like a coward. Between not retaliating and paying arms for hostages he convinced everyone in the MidEast that the US would cave in after a few casualties. Paying Iran for kidnapped Americans in Lebanon meant all Americans were easy targets for ransom kidnappings.

Carter may have been a loser, but at least he didn't cave in to Iran. It was a poorly planned military mission to rescue the hostages that ended his presidency. After that he became a shill for the Arabs in return for Saudi Arabian money for his charities.

Eisenhower was a better president than you give him credit. He pushed for the Interstate highway system that lets truckers carry goods across the US and people to go almost anywhere. It's ever since then that Congress has neglected to keep it up. He also pushed desegregation which the Republicans have been working against ever since then.

Nixon may have been a crook, but he opened up relations with Mainland China that gave us all those cheap goods, started the nuclear disarmament that you credit to Reagan, and got troops out of Vietnam that was started by Eisenhower.

I gave Eisenhower and Nixon good marks, but I disagree with you about Ronald Reagan.

Grant was honest, but had one of the most corrupt cabinets in history. He wrote all his books after leaving office to pay back everything he owed.

Trump declared bankruptcy several times to avoid paying back everyone.

The one detail about Taft I'm least likely to forget is that he was the last president to sport facial hair.

Grant was no more or less corrupt than any other politician in the era, all the stuff about his corruption is a Jim-crow era slander. Not excusing his real offenses (Credit Moblier scandal), but if you look at his administration from a civil rights perspective he was way ahead of his time. He founded the DoJ to prosecute the Ku Klux Klan and oversaw Radical Reconstruction. As CAPT Brad alluded to, Congress lost interest in Reconstruction after his second term, and much of his legacy was negated by the racist backlash that took over the south, establishing segregation.

I always heard that Coolidge was just lucky in timing and that Hoover was just unlucky in timing, and that neither played that huge a role in the country's turn of events.

@TrPrado, I think if we saw someone sporting a mustache like Taft's in today's era, they'd definitely win the hipster vote.

Maybe they'll come back in like 20 years, but the last person to run for president to be nominated by a major party with facial hair was Dewey and he lost what should have been an easy victory so...

I'll take another look at the whole Grant corruption thing. We can temporarily remove that one from my list until I can properly place him again.

Also the number one vision for Reconstruction belonged to Lincoln but that got fucked up for all parties thanks to Booth and then Johnson and a vindictive Congress.

I think your Wilson should be lower. He brought back the bank that Jackson fought so hard against.

Warren "Teapot Dome" Harding in the excellent category?

No wonder ND likes Trump too. Self-enriching presidents seem to be his favorites.

Top choices for how they benefitted the country:
1. Washington - amazing to guide a young nation and set a standard to be followed

2. Jefferson - responsible for the Louisiana Purchase - one of the best deals for the US forgives almost everything else - this deal has paid off thousands of times over

3. Andrew Johnson - responsible for Alaskan Purchase - while much of Johnson's efforts were not great for the US, this one deal also has paid off a thousand times over (it cost ~$123 million in todays dollars, and the US has extracted over $157 billion in oil from Alaska - hard to beat that return on the oil alone).

Slow your rollers, mate. No way Johnson beats Lincoln.

Lincoln was a much better President, but Johnson brought tremendous wealth to the USA - a once in a century boon that we are still benefitting from. And it was a highly criticized purchase at the time.

Okay but massive increase in industry under Lincoln.

We're always good at ramping up industry on war footing.

Jeff, I know the US government has been "funding" way too much of it's wars and military expansion, plus corporate welfare with debt. The "friends of the USA" really want to see the USA get it's house in order. I think back about the almost universally recognised "greatest generation" the USA produced, the men and women who fought the second world war, and quite frankly, this current President Trump, his "policies" and his supporters are an absolute disgrace in comparison.

Oh yes JFK and LBJ had their faults, but on civil rights they helped make real progress for Americans. There's this idolisation of Abraham Lincoln who led the US in the civil war, a war fought mainly over the divisive slavery issue, and then from some, no recognition for LBJ in actually getting real progress..remarkable inconsistency

I'm pretty sure slave owning states are the ones who "led us into a civil war", you know the ones who committed treason in order to enslave human beings.

Also I think it is time to abolish the office of the presidency. I am tired of this cult of personality shit. Just look at these insanely different rankings.

There is always the Articles of Confederation. And for the Grant bashers, you join the same chorus as the treasonous southern democrats who brought us massive slavery, the civil war, Jim crow, the ku-klux-klan and segregation.

All US Presidents were bad. Even the best of the founding father's, George Washington, was terrible. He ushered in the utterly horrible Alexander Hamilton as Secretary of Treasury, and acquiesced to his federalism viewpoints particularly with regard to banking. The list of the least horrible is below:

Martin Van Buren
Calvin Coolidge
William Howard Taft
Warren G. Harding