I'm sorry for Ogion that he has so little faith in so many things...

I am confident that the military would not take it upon itself to interpret the constitution to support a dictatorship. This sort of tripe is similar to the far right being terrified of Jade Helm as a military take over. If those were conservative nut jobs, believing that the liberals were creating some sort of autocracy, what does that make the people who believe that the military will swing the other way and enforce a fascist government? It's the same sort of deluded paranoia. It just goes to show it doesn't only live on one side of the aisle.

In the wake of a Reichstag Fire event here in America, the military might consent to temporary measures. If such measures terminate quickly, great, but in Germany they were merely the beginning. Maybe America is exceptional and can escape history in a way that Germany could not. It's up to McConnell and a few generals.

You can disagree with Ogion if you want but to disregard him altogether is folly.

Indeed, unlike Americans I spent part of my youth in Germany and my Dad was a WWII refugee so for me I understand how democracies fall in intimate detail. Americans are very naive with their "it can't happen here" mentality, which is precisely what makes it more likely because Americans are very vigilant about potential threats.

It is hardly hallucination to keep tabs on the reach of dominionists (e.g. People who want to impose a Christian theocracy) and other right wing groups in the ranks of the military. Certainly they're likely still a minority, but they're clearly present. It is ignorant to think that all members of the military support democracy.

Seriously, are we saying we know exactly at what point the military would stop following orders that undermine democracy? I don't think that's been tested. We live in an era where the right does not recognize the legitimacy of the rest of society, which is a mentality with a very ugly history. Anyone espousing complete confidence in the military is uninformed and ignorant, frankly.

You'll notice the right clearly does not support democracy, given how much they attack voting rights and work to suppress the vote. The GOP has a long history of subverting democratic norms in order to advance their agenda. Do we know where they'll stop? We don't

Stamping out voter fraud is justified because a single extra vote cast fraudulently could theoretically tilt an election. That's true, but if a multitude of votes is NOT cast because of voter suppression, then surely that could tilt an election too, right? (Statistics fans: The Republicans are so intent on eliminating alpha error that the country falls victim to beta error.)

Indeed, in Wisconsin, extra-rigorous voter ID laws suppressed approx 200k votes, well above the 20k majority which Trump so famously won in 2016. Would Hillary have won Wisconsin but-for voter suppression? Maybe, but we'll never know. Kinda like we'll never know if voter "fraud" tilted any elections this year.

In terms of real democracy, an over-count is just as damaging as an under-count.

Not t mention caging and other Jim Crow style efforts to disenfranchise minorities

Let's put it this way: I am an atheist and my family has a couple of LGBT people and is multiracial. Would you really expect me to believe someone like Captain abroad would lift a finger to protect our rights? Fat chance

What is caging? (Careful, this is a teaching moment.)

Also, if you're gonna make fun of CAPT_Brad's name, I thought "Crap-ton Bad" is better.

Caging is the process of purging voter rolls of minorities and then either putting up barriers to fixing the registrations or not telling people they've been degistered so that they get to the polls and are barred from voting. It was a major factor in Trump's victory.

You can agree with Ogion if you want but to regard him altogether is folly.

Only the fact that we are debating this thing , makes me wonder how backward did the US get .. expecting same behavior from POTUS as from the sultan of Turkey or the tzar or russia makes me really sad..

And that was my phone making fun of him. I'm not that clever

Also captain is a title and rank and brings visions and sounds of the sea, but esquire for attorneys smells of horse shit.

You guys are in a time warp and fixated on 'the seven days in may'.

I think I get it now. In America, as it was in Germany, it is easy to do nothing when democracy is threatened from within -- if that threat comes from an ideology that doesn't threaten ME. In Germany, most "real" Germans weren't gay and they certainly weren't Jewish so Hitler's rise was tolerable; he didn't threaten the safety of the mainstream. Likewise, in America, Trump doesn't threaten white privilege or the exercise of Christianity so most of the Republican Party doesn't get why the left is so upset. For them, it's a no lose situation; if extreme elements on the right prevail, they will not suffer. Indeed, they will no longer have to endure the "burden" of political correctness.

Well folks, silence is complicity.

From the European side of the Atlantic, the USA with the current president and a congress that is so split looks very much a failed state, captain Brad. And prime ministers in most European countries cannot dissolve parliament. Parliament decides on that.

In Westen Europe, presidents and prime ministers do not fire law enforcement that are investigating them and get away with it.

Most Americans are untroubled by complicity in horrors as long as it doesn't affect them

The left said the same things about every republican since Lincoln. When was the last time the new york times endorsed a republican?

Firing th FBI director had no more affect on the FBI than when I take my trash cans to the curb. That whole argument is a straw man.

And what of 'European opinion' like it makes any difference here.

When was the last time a Republican stood for things like liberty and justice for all? It is hard to think of a Republican who would merit endorsement? (The last repuboucan presidential endorsement by the NYT was of Eisenhower)

Actually, some of us like to hear what people from civilized nations think, a whole lot more than we care about what people in the third world sections of Dumbfuckistan ithroughout the United States think, frankly

(Also, note the typical conservative fetishing of violence in their idolize get the military and disdain for intellect and the rule of law demonstrated by Captain Brad. (Actually, "captain" evokes more a low level tyrant who clicks his heels and slavishly answers "yes sir" as he licks the boots of his superiors)

They say the new director, whoever he is, is expected to open up a criminal investigation into Hillary. It's sort of a litmus test for the nomination. A lot of people on the right are upset that Trump did not make good on that promise.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/12/politics/james-comey-donald-trump-loyalty-pledge/index.html

Most government leaders don't expect a loyalty oath from the investigators of their possible criminal actions. Democrats in Congress are already worried that this will be a condition for the next FBI director.

Yeah. We have republicans baying for the administration to launch politically motivated criminal proceedings against political opponents and people wonder why sane people are skeptical that conservatives will suddenly leap to defend the constitution? When have they ever done that?

"And prime ministers in most European countries cannot dissolve parliament. Parliament decides on that."

That's not a development that has always been. The dissolution of parliament is a very...parliamentary concept. And the prime minister, as the head of parliament, has had the tendency to get his party to back dissolution at his whim.

"Likewise, in America, Trump doesn't threaten white privilege or the exercise of Christianity so most of the Republican Party doesn't get why the left is so upset. For them, it's a no lose situation;"

But in the extreme scenario you're suggesting that these same people would actively demolish the system they run by preventing a Congress run by their party from meeting. You're suggesting that they target a Constitutional facet of government, thus undermining the Constitution, which some on the Right fetishize in some great measure.

"It is ignorant to think that all members of the military support democracy."

And if they're in leadership positions and give orders for that, their subordinates will say, "uh, no"