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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Yoyoyozo (65 D)
05 Dec 16 UTC
500 point live game
I want to try out a ridiculously high pot live game. I'm gauging interest to see if this is doable. If anyone is interested. Please PM me or post here.
5 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
02 Dec 16 UTC
Is gunboat taking over webdip?
I get notifications all day every day about the latest high quality gunboats set at 33% or lower RR. These are fast times at webdip high indeed.
10 replies
Open
tvrocks (388 D)
03 Dec 16 UTC
Possible feature idea
See below
5 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
29 Oct 16 UTC
My ex hasnt contacted me
So its been since August that she got thrown in jail and totalled her car. My ex has my phone number and she just opts to no longer talk to me. In our last conversation she tells,me I am psycho but I am too good at expressing my emotions.
166 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (65 D)
03 Dec 16 UTC
Being a Diplomat
I've finally hoarded enough points to achieve the elusive label of "Diplomat" on my profile again. For some reason though, I'm not really all that thrilled with the "upgrade" from the previous rank.
14 replies
Open
Mother Land (181 D)
03 Dec 16 UTC
need a few more experienced diplomacy players for fun game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=186264
password: rstlne
0 replies
Open
Fluminator (1500 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
Religion Tier Ranking
Rate the following religions in order from best to worst.
68 replies
Open
Peregrine Falcon (9010 D(S))
03 Dec 16 UTC
Soloing without building fleets
I'm curious how often powers can solo without building an additional fleet. I'm also wondering which powers could accomplish this feat. From what I can think of, there are only two powers that could accomplish it, Austria and Russia.
9 replies
Open
Obama tried same thing as Trump and got blocked
Obama repeatedly tried to give tax breaks for companies that "insource' jobs to the U.S. from overseas while eliminating tax deductions for companies that move jobs abroad.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/19/politics/senate-bring-jobs-home-bill-blocked/
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/213780-republicans-block-bill-to-end-tax-breaks-for-outsourcing
8 replies
Open
joepr (100 D)
03 Dec 16 UTC
new fast game; 10 minutes game
join
1 reply
Open
Wiza Mastermind (0 DX)
28 Nov 16 UTC
Do kids play Web Diplomacy?
I am a kid playing diplomacy in the 8th grade and am 13 years old, does anyone else here is a little kid like me.
79 replies
Open
slypups (1889 D)
03 Dec 16 UTC
The Pacifist Game
I've noticed the "Pacifist Diplomacy" game, http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=166960, and I'm trying to figure out what's going on there.
7 replies
Open
slypups (1889 D)
01 Dec 16 UTC
Game naming trends
Has anyone else noticed the tremendous uptick in Donald Trump themed game names since he won the US presidential election? What do you think of that? Not seeing that many Justin Trudeau themed games.
13 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Dec 16 UTC
(+9)
Is poor satire taking over webDip?
I get notifications all day every day about the latest high quality threads mocking something about 2 hours old with no original twist. These are fast times at webdip high indeed.
17 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
28 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Webdip forum dead at 90
Former webdip forum dead at 90. Feel free to exercise your right to freedom of speech in this thread as a tribute to webdip forum, where freedom basically didn't exist.
9 replies
Open
Hannibal76 (100 D(B))
02 Dec 16 UTC
Please pause our game
7 replies
Open
flash2015 (1447 D(G))
01 Dec 16 UTC
Quick Game Now?
Anyone up for a dip game now?
1 reply
Open
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
24 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
I hate getting Italy in classic Diplomacy
Italy is a dog of a country and that's being unkind to dogs
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Ciyan3 (100 D)
26 Nov 16 UTC
Austria can simply hold fleet Trieste,thought it leaves him with only one neutral SC.meanwhile it's hard to make a choice for turkey
Zybodia (355 D)
26 Nov 16 UTC
"Austria is always exciting through the whole game."

...which in Austria's case, often ends in 1903.
KalelChase (1494 D(G))
26 Nov 16 UTC
I know it was gunboat... but in honor of this thread; http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=185959&msgCountryID=0
ezk3626 (388 D)
26 Nov 16 UTC
Italy is hard because it requires diplomatic genius rather than tactical skill. It rewards a different kind of player.

I was reading Sharp's analysis and he said he wished Rome started with a fleet instead of an army.

How hard would be for there to be a mod that did this?
Nyghthype (100 D)
26 Nov 16 UTC
i find that italy is one of those countries where you just gotta fight somebody immediately. either austria or france.
KalelChase (1494 D(G))
26 Nov 16 UTC
I actually get quite a bit of success from hanging back and picking off the stray dots. Just don't help Russia too much.
Austria would be absurdly broken with a fleet in Rome. Fleet Rome basically forces Italy to fight Turkey or France first, and while Italy would be much better at fighting France than it is now, you would give up basically all leverage against Austria in exchange. Definitely not worth it.

It would make France worse, which probably needs to happen, but I think Austria would offset any benefit to this game's playability from France being nerfed.
^^In my opinion, Eden's analysis on country rating and on fleet Rome are spot on. I particularly like Italy. It's hard to do well, but I really enjoy the diplomatic power you have, as you can direct the entire board the way you want. More than any other power, no one has an immediate reason to distrust you.

As for Fleet Rome, if you want to try it, they have it on vDip: http://www.vdiplomacy.net/variants.php?variantID=3
However, as Eden said, it really only makes Austria more powerful, and gives less options for Italy, as they can't immediately invade Austria anymore.

I haven't played Milan yet, though I want to try it out sometime.
Mznvc (426 D)
26 Nov 16 UTC
I find you need to adjust your play significantly based on the country you control. This isn't easy as it often goes against your natural tendencies. The key thing to remember is that geography dictates politics. What we know of these countries historically, seems to work in this game as well. Italy seems to work best with patient play. See where the other players are headed before committing to an attack (e.g. WWI). You're not really in a position to decide on where the attack is going, but rather if you're joining an attack. Negotiations take on a bit of an extortionist feel as you're never anyone's first target, but your three neighbors are worried they are yours.
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
Well I'll have plenty to say about a certain game I am in right now.
It'll be a nice example to ask the "build trust " theorist as to why his theory clearly doesn't work. I'll so have some comments about this free buy in b/s
as well, and the ridiculous farce that I'm putting up with.
This game will probably be my main referral, when in the future players whine about the way I'll "play" Italy in the future.
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
I think I've tried all sorts of strategies and tactics with Italy, the one that seems to bring the best results is an alliance with Austria, but you need the right players..Austria's naval weakness got a mention, it's one of the keys to success and failure in the A I alliance.. The player with Austria, imho, has to resist the temptation of building a second fleet, has to trust the player with Italy having naval supremacy & the player with Italy has to behave honourably with that naval power.
Austria building a second fleet at the end of 02 is, imho, a recipe inviting betrayal by Italy in 03 or 04
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
I've also looked at the old games by top 100 players where they have won with Italy, gone into the games archived maps, press.
There's one group of similar methods, the tortuous have an early peace with France, go East.. LePantos, etc eliminate Turkey then surviving a round of infighting with Austria and Russia and triumph there quickly enough to then go North and into Germany, or west against France, breakout into Mid Atlantic.
The other successful method is the attack France from the get go, play a lesser role in Eastern Mediterranean but still usually the eliminate Turkey first then the Balkans knife fight
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
I'm just having a few bad games and the occasional interesting game, but the dud games with Italy, but also France have one thing in common.. Italy.
If this game country allocation algorithm does it's job I can look forward to not getting Italy soon
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
@_KalelChase I had a look at that game, 5 minute gunboat, and countries obligingly being in civil disorder / NMR's. to smooth the path to a solo. You did well, but my observation would be that Italy is such a useless donkey that it's only when the thoroughbred horse break their own legs & their jockeys fall off that the donkey wins the race
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
And you are not the donkey KalelChase, Italy is the odiferous poisoned chalice.
Zybodia (355 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
If Italy wouldn't always stab within the first two years, people might be more willing to work with them.
ChoosyBeggar (325 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
Lol@president's ranking list. Not because it's wrong, but specifically because of his feelings on Turkey. They're dead on. I'm playing a game right now where I'm about to solo as T and it just feels...weird
ChoosyBeggar (325 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
I think it basically comes down to this: you can't win with Turkey via strategy. It's all about tactical skill.
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
Are there any examples of, comments about a French Italian alliance ?
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
Zybodia, I have had plenty of experiences of playing the least offensive opening with Italy, armies to Tuscany & Apulia, fleet to ionian, just taking Tunis and been the loyal ally and been attacked by my "ally" in 03, 04 or 05 they get to seven, or so sc's and Italy's four or five get them quick growth
ssorenn (0 DX)
27 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
I'm playing a game right now where I'm about to solo as T and it just feels...weird

Ya think. Austria was a no show and you took advantage of that and did not draw. You should feel weird
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
27 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
I have up a good solo chance recently. Playing Russia with a newby bunch, and England and Germany NMR'd or promptly put in polite hold orders their way through the early years. Formed the AIR alliance went well defeated Turkey and then had France on the ropes with reduced sc's maybe defeated .. Got to 16 sc's with opportunities to solo by pinching sc's from my allies but felt a draw was the good thing to offer... Help make WebDiplomacy enjoyable for newbies.
CSteinhardt (9560 D(B))
27 Nov 16 UTC
(+7)
In some sense, every country in Diplomacy is unique, and playing each one correctly requires appreciating the unique problems that are posed. However, it's fair to say that Italy is probably the least similar to any other power, and so playing it to full effectiveness requires skills that take a while to hone -- it's a difficult country to play. On the other hand, if used correctly, it's probably the most powerful country on the map, and that's why you're seeing the strongest players in the thread saying they love Italy and the weaker players saying it's horrible.

The key to understanding Italy comes down to two geographical facts:

1) [The big benefit] You have more freedom and influence than any power on the map.

Most powers are constrained at the start of the game to think locally; two of EFG will usually cripple the third while two of ART will do the same. So, if you draw, say, Germany, almost all of your resources will be devoted to dealing with England and France despite your proximity to Austria and Russia. However, the balance can be easily tipped by even one or two units from an "outside" power; one or two Russian units in Scandinavia, for example, will not be enough to make Russia a northern power but do mean that Russia can help the early-game EFG to resolve in whichever way Russia prefers.

With Italy, you get this power in both directions. If you do things correctly, you can tip the balance of both EFG and ART in the manner you prefer. You also can have meaningful negotiations with all six powers because you have something to offer them, multiplying your effect. For example, an offer to Germany that you will send a unit to Piedmont in 1902 only if Russia [gets/doesn't get, as you prefer] Sweden in 1901 is very helpful to a Germany who wants an EG instead of EF. The point is, if you do things right as Italy, you have a very good chance to manipulate the entire early and even mid game into being arranged as you see fit, so that you can size up the different players, decide how you want the game to unfold, and then go for it. This is the power that everybody else in the game dreams of, the power that lets you end up crossing all of the relevant stalemate lines, and it's really unique to Italy. Only a northern Russia even approaches this level of influence, but being a northern Russia comes at other costs in the early game that Italy doesn't have.

The best Italian players are even willing to just send one unit somewhere for the negotiating power, because Italy is uniquely capable of this. For example, a single Italian unit that wanders into Galicia or Silesia in 1902 often provides outsized negotiating leverage, and no other country on the map can do this.

2) [The major flaw] You are so far away from almost all of your targets that they will always see your attack coming.

And the downside: the only center you're close to that another player naturally wants is Trieste, and even if you successfully take Trieste, that's usually the entirety of what you can keep in the long-term from a IRT split of Austria. Realistically, you have three theaters of operation:

Austria: a real invasion of Austria involves having mostly armies rather than fleets, which means building up those armies. Austria will see it coming, as will R/T, who already have those armies and so are likely to get there first. Attacking Austria means you will have to leave yourself open to possible fleet invasion from either Turkey or France, because you won't have the units to deal with it.

France: Requires putting pressure on not just Marseilles but really on Spain and then the MAO. Spain is 3 turns away from any home center, and you need at least two units on it. Attacking France requires leaving yourself open to a possible fleet invasion from Turkey and having too few units to deal with even an Austrian stab on land.

Turkey: Also 3 turns away from any home center before you reach Con or Smy, and often you're required to breach Syria first, meaning it's really 4 turns away. Attacking Turkey requires leaving yourself open to a possible fleet invasion from France, and breaching Syria while you're still on 4 centers leaves yourself wide open to Austria plucking centers from you.

Moreover, these theaters are mutually exclusive -- Spain and Smyrna are a minimum of two game years away if you want to reposition, and attacking Austria requires a unique balance of units. So, that's the fatal flaw of Italy -- more so than any other country, you need to be able to predict at least 2 game years out what the map is going to look like. If you get it right, you correctly pick one of these three targets in a situation where your potential enemies are otherwise occupied. But if you get it wrong, you're hopelessly out of position, and even if you *can* reposition, it will cost you several game years to reposition to defend, then reposition again to attack a different target, and no country in Diplomacy can do well by having 3-4 stagnant game years in the early to mid game while everybody else who survives is continuing to grow.

So, the key to Italy is learning to use its great strength to overcome its great weakness. The best Italian players constantly use their influence to arrange and rearrange alliances across the map, and are flexible enough to invade whichever of their neighbors ends up being right based upon how things will develop several years out.

However, a weak Italian player will instead let their course of action be responsive to events around Europe, which often results in a schizophrenic rush to different places without really being able to stay long enough to do anything safely, so that they just stay on 4 centers for 5+ game years and then somebody gets large enough to come swallow them.

Finally, there's a third class of mediocre Italian player who simply has a favorite target and aggressively goes after it from the outset. I suppose in principle that would be correct about 1/3 of the time, although this sort of player most often picks Austria, and Austria tends to end up being the correct target less than 1/3 of the time. But in practice it doesn't work out this way, because without the benevolent guidance of the Italian helping things along, alliance structures have a distressing tendency to change unexpectedly, so that the right decision in 1902 when you start shifting units becomes the wrong decision by 1904 when you're ready to capitalize. You can sometimes make even the wrong target work by simply peeling one unit off the line to influence events in the other sphere, keeping everybody in line. But, it's rare that things will serendipitously fall into place for you. Unless, of course, you're playing one of the other six powers and it benefits a skilled Italy for you to grow...
Great thoughts, CSteinhardt!

Can you elaborate on the "influence of Northern Russia"? I am interested in that, because mostly at the start of the game Im ready to give up North if I can settle good in the south. Thanks!
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
29 Nov 16 UTC
Well after reading a very, very good post by CS ( thank you ) thinking about it, re reading CS's post again...repeatedly and thinking over my past games with Italy & how I fit those experiences in with CS's analysis. eg the comments on Italy's flexibility V ART & EFG ....and there where would I fit in his "types" of "Italy" players... obviously mediocre because I don't have enough success with the wretched country, I did have modest success playing the attack France from the get go. & ally with Austria strategy, but only when the AI alliance stays stable long term. The problem I might be having is I got bored with that basic same game plan, and when trying to get that more advanced game style to work.. eg sending a unit seperately to trade it's services in the diplomacy / alliances side I'm good at giving the help but hopeless at getting much in return.. That's possibly why I'm so angry ..sick of being useful but getting stitched up.
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
29 Nov 16 UTC
So the next few times I get stuck with Italy I'll be the mediocre and completely disinterested player.
Hamilton Brian (811 D(B))
29 Nov 16 UTC
Interesting to think that Italy has to fight immediately. I have come to think that with diplomatic acumen, fighting can be held off that first year. I think to persuade France and Austria to look the other way is critical.
ckroberts (3548 D)
29 Nov 16 UTC
This is a good thread. I have little else to add.

Enjoyability rankings (as in, which countries I most enjoy playing):
1. Austria (by far the most fun to play; playing Austria is everything that makes Diplomacy a good game)
2. France
3. Italy
4. Germany
5. Russia
6. England
7. Turkey

Successfulness rankings (as in, if meaningful stakes depended upon my winning, the countries I would want to play):
1. France
2. Russia
3. Germany
4. England
5. Austria
6. Italy
7. Turkey (Turkey sucks)
eturnage (500 D(B))
29 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
Italy is fun to play. Usually, a 1901 alliance with Austria is critical to get off the ground. Hopefully, that alliance will last long enough to figure out what Turkey and Russia are doing because a true Steamroller means Italy is just dead meat if she stabs Austria.

IMO, the most important part of playing Italy, like most of the powers, is a thorough and accurate evaluation of the other players. You need to figure out who you can work with, and who you cannot work with. Who might be too dangerous and who is a willing padawan? These assessments, especially in the Balkans theater, are critical for which direction you should take Italy.
Plus one.

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77 replies
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
26 Nov 16 UTC
(+3)
Fidel Castro dead at 90
Former Cuban President Fidel Castro dead at 90. Feel free to exercise your right to freedom of speech in this thread as a tribute to Castro's Cuba, where freedom basically didn't exist.
187 replies
Open
Hauta (1618 D(S))
29 Nov 16 UTC
Trump to dump Pence after inauguration?
After appointing a Supreme Court justice and a big tax cut, Trump might be replaced by Pence (due to conflict of interest of biz dealings), but what if Trump replaced Pence with a Democrat first? Then Trump is immune from investigation because Pence is no longer there to replace him. Genius?
30 replies
Open
Halls of Mandos (1019 D)
26 Nov 16 UTC
Modern with Friends
Some RL friends and I need to fill up a few more spots in a Modern game, we understand and will respect the rules.
25 bet, day phases, DSS.
Any takers?
30 replies
Open
swordsman3003 (14048 D(G))
01 Dec 16 UTC
Get this World Gunboat going please
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=185901
0 replies
Open
Lethologica (203 D)
30 Nov 16 UTC
Quality Press
http://www.pid.gov.pk/?p=30445

Would you ally with this man in S01?
56 replies
Open
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
28 Nov 16 UTC
What is you Favorite Movie? Why?
Been getting really back into film lately and was curious what each of your favorite films is and well, why? If you have more than one feel free to give a grouping.
30 replies
Open
peterlund (1310 D(G))
30 Nov 16 UTC
(+4)
M25 tracker program
Noticed that the signup was closed. So I start this to show what my mafia tracker program is capable of....
12 replies
Open
peterwiggin (15158 D)
30 Nov 16 UTC
GR Challenge subs
Due to an emergency, I have three replacement positions open in the ongoing anon GR challenge. If you are interested in taking 1 or more of them, please send an email indicating which ones you'd like to [email protected]. It's an anonymous challenge, so don't post here.
1 reply
Open
Durga (3609 D)
23 Nov 16 UTC
(+3)
Board games
Political talk aside, what board games (other than Diplomacy ofc) do people really like playing? I usually stick to video games but given we all likely have similar gaming interests I figured I'd ask for some recommendations.
102 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
27 Nov 16 UTC
Donald Trump Accidentally Calls for a Recount
https://puu.sh/swv71/cefe12e552.png

His lawyers have to be quitting right now.
184 replies
Open
Cade (100 D)
30 Nov 16 UTC
Mediterranean Diplomacy with friends
We need one person to fill our game tonight. We are real life friends, but are playing an anonymous game, so that we don't metagame. It begins at 8:15 tonight. Its a speed diplomacy game, so 5 minutes per phase, no chat. Heres the game link: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=186101
5 replies
Open
X3n0n (216 D)
29 Nov 16 UTC
DC representation
Hey does anyone has an idea how I could represent a general sigmoid function as a difference of two convex functions? s: R -> R would be sufficient...
0 replies
Open
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