I'm not a fan of leaving a mail/approach until after a couple of games. It's too late then, because v few people have the patience even to read the instructions for a video game they've paid real cash money for! Also it's much easier to automate by sending the Help? mail on registration than having to stick a gameticker on a Noob and a separate mail.

As for sticky subjects, why not have a webDip wiki thingie sister site? You could ask permission from pubbers etc to pinch advice articles, publish the stats in there etc...Hell, integrating it with this site so that the mods or those approved by the site owners/mods/Powers That Be (poor old Angel, never did get to boff Buffy) could be the ones on the editorial 777 permits... and cross-links (i.e. put a hyperlink Commentary button up, so that a SoW game could have a Commentary page....

My head hurts... g'night all!

this would be much better if/when more than one player can access the same country in a game. Emailing copy/pasted messages back and forth would be a disaster, imho.

Finally on the same page Abge? Nice.

I've always agreed with you that it would be a nice feature.

Also, we would need to be careful about what mentoring actually entailed. It would suck for others if they thought they were playing against a new player but he was actually being mentored by Babak.

I completely agree. To be a mentor is to give direction. Not play the games people need to learn from their mistakes. It's the only way to get better.

I'd heavily suggest such thing took place in private games with disclaimers. I'd be happy to both help coordinate such games (not everyone need by mentored/double-headed, they just need to know that it's going on) and/or be a mentor for someone.

This is a *great* idea, and it's not the first time this has come up. A mentoring system is something I've seen used successfully on other sites, too (although I'm not aware of one in the Diplomacy world).

I agree that we'd need to be clear about what the mentoring position is for - I don't actually have a problem with any players getting help from any other players, but I think the point of a mentoring system is to welcome new players by helping them use the site and understand the rules, not to elevate them to the top 10% of players.

With this distinction, mentored newbies can be directed to the SoW for grander tactical/strategic discussions.

This is a really interesting discussion which has generated a lot of chatter between the mods. I think we'll want to make a mentor program an official part of the site- so please keep the ideas coming!

We have no rule about players asking for help from other players in full press games; I just think that raw strategic advice shouldn't be the focus of a mentoring system.

If there's a coordinator pairing players up, we should consider trying to match players with mentors in their own timezone. We'd probably need more mentors for the american/european timezones too.

So is the point perhaps more of a tactical advice mentoring thing? i.e., what are the likely outcomes of different order sets and what are the actual possibilities, just in the next couple of seasons, as opposed to greater strategic advice?

I mean, that's a deep enough hole to dig just all on its own, let alone getting into the longer term logistics and diplomatic negotiations (which are even harder).

I think, it's not as much of advice driven for in game(although there is sure to be some), but critique of moves both positive and negative in a one on one format after so they can recognize their mistakes and work on change going forward

Ah, so let them play but give them an individualised "school of war" style commentary after each resolution phase? That sounds like less of a mentoring time sink, yes. :-)

The point is to get them where they can understand and enjoy the game enough to get hooked. Not even necessarily make sure they're good. Of course, being good helps with getting hooked. At least that's my initial impression

+1^

I think there are two separate things here:

1) Mentoring brand new players - how do the various site features work? How do orders work? Why did my support fail here?

2) Mentoring players who know the game rules (and presumably know the site, too) but want to improve their game generally.

I think that #1 is a better fit for the mentoring role, but it would naturally include some of #2 (with directions to the SoW as appropriate).

I think SOW already does an excellent job with #2. The only real addition we'd need is to make it easier for TAs to view student's press in real-time.

Yes yes yes. Two players per country. Listening to a student trying to explain what another country is asking for has been lost in translation sooooo many times.

Being able to see the actual press, and then listening to what the student is understanding, and being able as mentor or TA to say, yes that's what he meant, or you need to read between the lines to see the truth. I think that's the hardest thing to initially pick up on

When I was a student (and when I was a TA), we just copied and pasted press. I think the two-players-per-country game would benefit from a 'share game' feature more than the SoW (though it would obviously help both).

Probably going to get myself ruled out as a Mentor, but my view of it is that you should advise when the Noob asks; only when there's something obviously stupid, like standing a unit on move 1 (v rarely is this defensible) or negotiating badly (I'll let you play with my Action Man if you let me into Galicia)... [um, should've phrased that differently] should the Mentor make an unasked for comment.

We can make sure you get the ones who don't want too much unsolicited advice ;) Always good to have a diverse pool of people.

I'd like a mentor to help me get involved with the Tournament scene. I don't know how it works, where I sign up, if I need to avoid "expert" tournaments where I will not be welcome, or anything at all really. I made a feeble attempt at asking about it on the goofy "And now for an original thread" topic but everyone ignored me. I timidly asked if I just copy and paste my name onto the list on another thing I thought was a tournament and everyone ignored me, and then the next guy to post copied and pasted his name on the list and everyone pretended I never said anything. So, yeah, getting friendly help even for people that moderately know how to play the game isn't quick, easy and friendly. Of course, maybe I should have just made a post that said everything I just said now, but well, maybe I didn't want to look that obvious of a newb to everyone on the site.

on it ;)

Don't you think it's much easier to simply change a few of the existing help pages? E.g.:
http://webdiplomacy.net/help.php
http://webdiplomacy.net/intro.php
For instance, the intro does explain the basics of Diplomacy, but not of webDip; it doesn't explain how to submit orders, what the difference between "save" and "ready" is, nor what "cancel", "draw", or "pause" do, etc. Nor does it encourage people to use the forum.

Furthermore, there should be an easy to find link to a "if you have any questions, or could use some help, contact one of these players"-page. Feel free to put me on that list.

@Nescio, re: help/intro

Soon™

Help vs Mentoring: One of my professions was CBT/TBT and the reason for my existence was that people do not absorb help texts, people learn by doing. My reason for the initial idea was that people's interest is stunted by needing advice for their situation, not some generalised WOT that suffocates their potential interest before it's properly engaged. It's like trying to sell a washing machine by lobbing the manual at people - it's WHAT not WHY. Advice from someone that wants you to like the game, to see the tactical wrinkles, to sense the times you should push, the times co-operate, all that people need to get to feel, as well as know and that's why a Mentor is so much better.

If you're point is that mentors shouldn't just be walking and talking FAQs, I agree =)

If you're looking for volunteers for this mentor lark feel free to add my name to the list.

I would like to be mentored for :

2) Mentoring players who know the game rules (and presumably know the site, too) but want to improve their game generally.

Because I like the game and want to learn more about it. Like details in opening and stalemate lines. Reading is good, but games teach better I think?

If there are any games which teach players to do the above, then I would be interested to join the game as a player pls.