Ooh, krellin, bah is right. You just consider people meta gaming against you because your negotiating skills suck. you know as well as I that I like you :)) everyone regardless will use prior knowledge of tactics in their own negotiations. Especially in non anon . Part of the issue, when the same people play over and over again.
I find it interesting that you call me out krellin, you have given good reason for me to eliminate you in the games we have played. But, in the end, I still like you.

As for the leagues, I don't like the format. That's all.

The flip side of a pre-determined bias against a particular player in a game or league, is that you (the player with the bias!) may be missing out on a potentially big opportunity, that only that player whom you have bias against can offer you as that country and under the particulars of that unique game's developing situation.

I expect strong pre-determined biases are frequent at lower levels of play, and almost non-existent at the highest levels of play.

^ and by bias against, I mean aversion to any significant cooperation. I understand that it can be beneficial to adjust negotiating tactics and styles to better suit the person you wish to cooperate with.

Yoyoyozo - It wasn't even remotely random, and is probably the only reason Im still alive in that match after Krellin's ridiculous start - and yes Krellin I intend to fuck you up i every remaining game :P

I find it hilarious that certain posters above have made their opinions known when they played a series that was absolutely plagued with meta-gaming from game to game where they were key players - yes you BO and PHIL.

The hypocrisy is pretty astounding. For the record, that series of atches ended up with about 4 or 5 4-5 way draws, with a couple of players being singled out in every match by the mob.

Frankly it was an unenjoyable disgrace.

Having said that it is what it is. Non-anon series need a different mindset and approach - and use it as a learning opportunity.

Should we take bets on who the former mod could be?

Thank you to everyone who is enjoying the Leagues and have spoken here.

For those who are disappointed, I am sorry that you are not enjoying your time. But this tournament is the one most people on the site voted to have back, and the rules are well laid out for everyone to see. And in the sign up threads the meta aspect of this tournament was clearly and repeatedly stated. Its fine that you don't like it, but please don't pretend that you were being misled.

All I will ask is for you to see the tournament through. I thoroughly enjoyed my season in the leagues, despite sarg actively using the meta aspect to fuck me in later games. Its all part of the challenge.

Wusti, I kept every game in that series separate. I got bored with a lot of the games and didn't bother to eliminate other players.

Thanks for kicking it off Goldie.

Thx for all your hard work Goldy. You deserve tremendous credit for getting it all going. As I said this is my first time doing this and I now know, that it isn't for me. I plan to see it through , but the thread was started to see if others thought the same way as I did, and those who don't can have their say as well

ssorenn - I felt much the same after a played a similar style series - but time helps grant some perspective, and non-anon games represent a different and new kind of challenge - hence why Im doing it again. Hopefully this time it won't cost me about 300 GR places :D

Thx wusti, I play non anon, and have no issue with it. It's playing 4 straight games of non anon with same people that bother me. It was my fault for not reading through the rules and as I said I will play it out

I my experience, in most non anon games, players have their buddies and team with them to the detriment of the non-buddies. That's why I play only anon games.

Not all of us have buddies...

Maybe in lower quality games. But in higher quality games that doesn't hold true.

For what it's worth, I'm having a ton of fun. And if I get meta-ganged up on at any point, I'll look for mini one turn successes, like holding on to an sc for one extra turn, for satisfaction.

Thank you for setting up and working the leagues, Gold! It's the first time I've played with a full slate of top notch players all in one game, and it is quite an experience -- that I'm sure has only just begun :)

ssoren -- I wasn't calling you out, bud. YOu were just the example I used because you were the one who made the post I was referring to, which referenced meta-gaming.

I was in no way suggesting that you have not had cause to eliminate me in past games. You did, and you did. I'm not upset about that at all. But to deny that you and I BOTH use our knowledge about each other to frame our negotiations...and likewise that, given two equal opportunities to work with each other, or work with a stranger, we may be inclined to choose one another, for the known evil instead of the unknown....

....well, we ALL meta-game. And that's OK. That's reality.

As for my abrasive ways causing me to be targetted -- I have been told on more than one occassion BY the people attacking me that they were attacking me, and making a worse strategic decision in so doing, simply because they dislike me. It's just continuing proof of my long-hel belief that this gaming site is populated by a vast pool of emotionally immature people....so be it, I know it, and choose to be here.

But the overall point is that meta-gaming is a fact of the game.


IN the context of leagues, therefore, to complain about meta-gaming and manipulating alliances from game to game is....well...it's silly.

It's no different that in the NFL, when a team has its playoff position locked up, they may sit their best players in the final game to prevent injuries. It's a LEAGUE, and the games MUST be taken in the context of the greater scope of the league as whole, not as individual entities. I'm trying to win the LEAGUE set of games, not any indibividual conflict.

By the way --- anon doesn't help prevent all meta-gaming. My language useage (no, not just swearing, but my general sentence construct, etc) easily identifies me to most people that know me, if they know I am in the anon game, unless I put a hell of a lot of effort into trying to write as a different person....which I just don't care to do.

ssoren- the former mod is the great Abge. He's a great player, with very distinct diplomatic skills. I think he's probably, generally speaking, just a very good human being overall...and this can be used against him, or at least to curb his advantage against you.

That's why many turn to gun boat.

Gunboat sucks dung beetle ass.

SO....if a dung beetle EATS shit, what DOES it shit?

That Abge guy, is shrewd.

Don't forget though, he gave you up in the Last game. :(

Not sure how I got dragged into a thread about a tournament I haven't been a part of in 4 years, but OK.

1) The Leagues are awesome; the best site-hosted games by far.

2) Anyone who says they don't metagame is a liar or doesn't know what metagaming means.

I don't think i'd really considering coming back for subsequent seasons for a few reasons. I'd joined the league expecting i'd be matched up with players of a similar level but hasn't really been the case. We've got players who got bumped into the premium level because of participation in past leagues and only got pushed up by default due to the last completely league being a couple years ago and that league being so large the quality line for getting bumped up went pretty far down the list. No offence to that person (decent enough guy), but the difference is experience is noticeable enough and playing four sets of games with this same set doesn't sound that appealing.

Admittedly i was a bit lazy with the understanding of the rules, so i too didn't know that it was going to be the same 7 guys each game. I mistakenly assumed the concept up pushing top two up a level and bottom two down a level was done on a game by game basis not a season to season. That sounded more interesting because it still has some meta-game concepts but there's incentive to not play too conservative in a given game or risk getting bumped. Also better to have some degree of freshness in each game. Further to this, i just don't love how intimately familiar 6 other guys are going to be about my game style following a gauntlet of games with me.

Also not sure i love the idea of games overlapping. Meta-gaming because of hard feelings or relationships from subsequent games is one thing but having completely different set of dynamics with same players in two games going on at the same time just sounds overly complicated. I know in our game there's some incentive to wrap up our game quickly for a combination of not wanting to deal with that and just not wanting to have so many games on our plate at the same time.

The concept has some potential, just needs to be tweaked a bit for me to ever consider doing it again.

abge, in the initial sign up thread for this current season, someone very prominently asked if you were allowed to beat up on the current leader, and you very prominently said "yes, and it was glorious". At least that's my memory and apparently some other people's memory as well. Sorry to drag your name through it.

@Village

Rankings are probably off because, as you say, they haven't run in a while. In my experience, after just one year, the Leagues do an amazing job of pitting similarly skilled players together. There are, of course, some anomalies, such as me.

@Valis

Yes, I did and it was. People need to toughen up.

I don't think anyone would say you are responsible for people not bothering to read the rules which is their own fault, or even that you have control over the rules. Just giving what I think is the honest explanation.

This is the point early in the thread:
Caballo Blanco Online (736 D)
30 Jan 2015
I assume you played in them before... so being nonanon was there immediate ganging up on the leader in games 2, 3, and 4?

abgemacht Online (666 D (G))
30 Jan 2015
(+1)
Yes and it was glorious.

Later and somewhat related, Gold further clarified:
Basically, it allows for stuff like "Hey, we worked well last game. Lets keep it up this game so we both make it through" but it forbids stuff like "Hey, if you stab Turkey in game 2, I'll stab France in game 3"

As evidenced earlier in the thread I'm not the disagreeing party here. Just trying to facilitate understanding and communication.

@abgemacht

Given that case i think we should have hit this season fresh with brackets on GR alone. This made for a pretty muddy start.

If the intent of this is to be an ongoing thing i think we're going to be disappointed, as it doesn't really seem from the past you get that much retention. I think we still need to be able to make a compelling individual season to keep the interest there.