"OK.....A Person has BLACK HAIR and DARK BROWN SKIN.....but they decide that they have been improperly labeled, and decide to insist to all of society that they are in fact a white person with blonde hair. Better still, they insist that they are, in fact, an albino. Nothing you say to them, including showing them definitions and pictures of what an Albino is, convinces them that they are not in fact an Albino...and then they file a lawsuit to demand that society allow them to be labeled an Ablno [sic]." Oh how I wish that example were about a Hispanic. Because "Hispanic" is an extremely flexible term, and depends almost entirely on personal identification according to American law. You can be a Mexican immigrant whose family has been in Mexico for generations and still identify legally as not Hispanic. I identify as Hispanic even though I have (very) white skin and was raised by white parents in a very white society. But I'm patrilineally Mexican, and that's enough for me. Nevermind the fact that I am very isolated from Mexican culture, don't know Spanish, etc. I'm Hispanic.

krellin,
"Transsexualism is when an individual identifies with a gender inconsistent or not culturally associated with their assigned sex, i.e. in which a person's assigned sex at birth conflicts with their psychological gender."

Now please explain how viewing yourself as a different gender is denying reality. Gender is not all that much a part of reality, since it's purely psychological. I think you're conflating sex and gender. If they claimed they had a different sex than they do, then sure, they probably have some sort of mental problems. I don't know of any that do this though.

I expect there are parts of your identity that you are very fond of that I could call denying reality, and I don't think you'd agree with a diagnosis of mental illness on those grounds.

Putin33,
your comments in this thread are irrelevant to the topic at hand. I'm not sure why you posted them.

There's been plenty of fair objections. While, on the surface, it might appear profoundly bigoted to "bar T-people from driving", that's not the issue here. The issue is barring T-people from getting *drivers' licenses*, which is a whole different issue. It's not necessarily bigoted to bar someone from getting a license when they can't even accurately tell you their own gender.

If a cop pulls over someone who looks like a dude but his driver's license says that he's a girl (or vice versa), then that creates some pretty obvious traffic enforcement hurdles at the very least, never mind correctly ID'ing someone suspected of a more serious offense.

As for classifying transgenderism (or whatever you want to call it) as a mental disorder (gender dysphoria, most likely), there's a legitimate case for that too. I was trained that a mental disorder does not exist unless it meets all the criteria for a mental illness, and one of those is if it's detrimental to the patient's quality of life. If "transitioning" to a different gender improves or maintains the patient's quality of life, then it's harder to justify involuntary treatment.

I'm not trying to make any overarching points on the topic of trans- people, but I will say that some of you are being WAY too quick to criticize Russia. Sometimes, self-proclaimed "tolerant" people are very *intolerant* of conflicting views on an issue with two sides of comparable validity.

Don't complicate it. Everyone knows Putin has it out for the LGBTQ community in Russia. It's just more of the same.

The reason Russia has so many traffic accidents can be summed up in one word:

VODKA.

But Putin will take any excuse to clamp down on anyone he considers to be a deviant.

^...To be clear...are we talking about Big Bad Vlad or our Putin here?

I frankly don't know what Vladimir Putin thinks he's doing...CLEARLY transexuals are enemies of the state, he should just throw them all in a camp, as well as some family members...

Works for good old North Korea, right?

Jeff, you have it all wrong, they just drink a little bit of water.

Putin33 is a chicken shit, why does this surprise anyone? He doesn't have the ability to state that even one of his idol's policies is wrong. I'm just surprised he didn't completely skip this thread.

@King - I think that water comes from the rocks in their Putinka.

MyxIsMe, it's a linguistics joke, if you don't know Russian, it won't make sense.

Probably the same water that krellin and Putin33 drink before posting.

No that's russian kool-aid, comrade.

@gunfighter: what problems will trangender people face while driving? that's my only question. are with krellin on this topic, who said: "As for driving - since they clearly won't know which side of the street to drive on on any given day, they represent a danger to the general public, and thus are rightfully denied a driving license."

Vodka is Russian for water.

@steephie: almost. voda ist water, vodka is the diminuitive, so, little water. that's why kc's "a little bit of water" joke was funny. (and now isn't anymore, because i explained it).

Ah then the guy who told me wodka means water is wrong..

this thread is like a Best Of for webdip, in under 50 replies. superb

I have decided, and am anouncing here and now, and REQUIRE you all to honor my wish, that despite evidence to the contrary, I am, IN FACT, a Moderator with the power to ban anyone that crosses my path. Further, I will be site owner next week.

Done.

Now fuck off if you disagree with the obvious truth of my words.

OTHER obvious truths I believe and which you MUST agree and give full faith and credit to:
1. Jamiet99UK is in fact a one-legged crossdressed who own no less than 54 pairs of crotchless panties. I believe it to be true, thus it is so.
2. Obi is, in fact, the most well spoken and coolest dude in the world. He is also, in fact, the ladies-man of ladies men, for whom all whom not dead drunk passed out swoon upon his passing.
3. PE is a nerdburglar. Yessss.....yes indeed, he is.


Please PM me for more obvious and actual truths about the reality of each and every member of this forum. I will gladly enlighten you as to the REAL TRUTH about each person's so-called existence.

That is all.

That's a little more mental than psychological the way identity is.

inb4 krellin bans me.

I applaud and support Krellin's decision to live as a woman. Good for you, sister!

Tr(anny)Prado....if you "psychologically" identify yourself as something that is 100% NOT what your actual identify is...then you, much as Jamiet99uk....have a severe mental disorder. Period. End of discussion.

Nationality is psychological. Gender is psychological. Birthplace is physical, thinking you were born somewhere you weren't after being told by your parents and shown your birth certificate is mental. Sex is physical, thinking you have the genitalia of the opposite sex is mental. The comedy cube is physical, thinking you're funny enough to have one is mental. Identity is a psychological concept.

krellin "psychologically" identifies himself as sane and stable which is not his actual identity.

@ bo_sox48

"Everyone knows Putin has it out for the LGBTQ community in Russia. It's just more of the same."

I won't argue with that, but I'm not convinced that this T-person driving restriction is necessarily related with Putin's contempt for the LGB community.

@ kasimax

"what problems will trangender people face while driving?"

I'm sure that a T-person will retain the physical ability to operate a motor vehicle; that's not what I'm disputing. But if they were to use a driver's license for other identification purposes, then there are some obvious issues there.

Good lord Tr(anny)Prado....what the fuck back-assward fucked up public education has destroyed your mind? Nationality is actually a legal definition, based upon, generally, where you have born. It is a human construct, with a specfic meaning. Just because morons like you want to ignore society and pretend that things exists in a way in which they do not does not make it so.

You truly are a blithering idiot.

Gender is physical, moron. Though we are certain your penis is too small to be seen with the himan eye, the fact that you have one assigns your gender to you BY DEFINITION. It has nothing to do with your distorted wishes. This **childish** libertard notion that "gender" and "sex" are different is just a result of your pathetic brainwashing.

And....since you have admitted it is MENTAL to not comprehend your sex....then you, naturally, agree with me that those with such thinking have a mental disorde.r

Thanks for playing, and for agreeing. Old Vlad and Mother Russia are proud of you.

Grow the fuck up and enter reality, my friend.

If one is truly in the belief that their boyness or girlness is opposite of that which the OBVIOUS external or lack of external plumbing dictate BY DEFINITION....then I can hardly trust that such a mentally ill person will be able to properly differentiate the meaning between a green light and a red light. Clearly, these people should not drive.

@kasimax, I am glad someone appreciated my (now ruined) joke.

@KC i did too.
@whomeverhebelongsto krellin has found the keyboard again.