Abge, I absolutely agree that not every defendant should be shackled in the courtroom. Some should, and some ARE - for reasons you stated - it can bias the jury.

But whereas you are intelligent enough to separate the specifics of this incident (an action in the moment) versus what shoudl eb done in the future to minimize such things, there are many here who no doubt completely fail to realize you can not travel through time and change this incident. there are many here you think a pen can't be a deadly weapon, etc etc etc

Of course, if you want to know why certain things happen - no glass cages, etc etc etc - that would be the liberal do-gooders that are always doing everything they can to not emotionally harm the suspects, etc. Some of which is good...some of which is not. But to think the cops/authorities can do anything they want to prisoners is foolish and naive.

/\ The last was NOT specifically targetted to abge, by the way - who is NOT foolish or naive. :)

At maniac - refer to prior comments. Yeah...why don't you just go ahead and put every suspect in court inside a glass cage and see exactly how long it takes before Al Shaprton and crew are burning down the courthouse.

Get real. You know that whole "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" thing...it means you can't treat a criminal like a criminal until they are verrified as a criminal. That means you can't put them in a cage for presentation and say, "don't mind the box...he's really not guilty yet..."

Do any of you have any idea how the court systems work? How trials work? How juries function? I suspect the answer to that question is evident...

AND...before you even start....attacking someone with a weapon makes you a verifiable criminal in the moment, with witnesses abounding.

@krellin
'Get real. You know that whole "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" thing...it means you can't treat a criminal like a criminal until they are verrified as a criminal.'

Suppose the criminal in this case just wanted an autograph. Are you saying now he was innocent until proven guilty?

"Mania, you are, an always shall be, an idiot."
- Spock, 2014

There are a handful of scenarios in which I can imagine using a gun on a man armed with a pen would be appropriate. This is manifestly not one of them. If nothing else, opening fire in a room full of innocent people six times is far more dangerous than a man with a pen. And how do you shoot someone six times when he's still up? Were there multiple shooters? Even more dangerous. Or did they shoot him when he was already down?.

krellin, that you think only liberals or Obama-supporters are opposed to this, or that I am a liberal, only indicates the ignorance necessary to maintain your stunted worldview.

ckroberts - Oh..gee....I didn't know you were an eye witness with perfect knowledge of the situation, as opposed to another moron with an opinion based upon whatever skewed, fucked up biased reporting they got from the foreign press...

As for what I think of Libtards and Obama-supporters...they are a distinct and utterly predictable group of hypocrites. I could really give a fuck if *you* do or don't think you are a libtard, etc. The world is full of liars who call themselves "moderates" and other bullshit..who calim to NOT be Obama supporters...but who...surprise surprise...could never imagine voting against the Democrats. <yawn...> blah blah blah That you take this so personally and are riled up about it is enough to paint you in neon lights as yet another with a guilty Libtard conscience.

<yawn...>

As for my world view...you don't know shit about my world view, mostly because you never actually make any attempt to understand it, but instead just jump to conclusions as soon as you see my name. It's typical, it's boring, it the average tiny-minded thought process of the local Libtard.

Now DANCE MONKEY!!

I'm on the phone, so haven't read all of this. But I wanted to point out that the pen was likely the attorney's and that shackling the defendant unduly influences the jury...

ckrobert - the typical libtard...it goes something like this: Cops are always bad guys when someone dies by the hand of a cop. Libtards *hate* authority....and yet....raging fools and hypocrites that they are...they can never have enough big government to rule their lives with an iron fist and correct all their personal failings and enforce "justice" on society. They want every individuals thoughts run through *their* version of a moral compass....but when the authorities make their *authority* known....they hate authority.

Morons.

Now go away ckroberts, you tiny minded pissant little fool

LOL

Krellin if I ever become president, remind me to hire you as my press secretary. :P

From "00.06" to "00.10" in the video:
"Like boom, boom, boom and then [points finger gun to floor] boom-boom-boom-boom."

As ckroberts already suggested, they shot multiple times at point blank range a body twitching on the floor. That is unprofessional, unacceptable and I dare posit criminal.

Slyguy...I'm either highly insulted, or exhilarated. None the less, I gladly doctor the spin for you.

"multiple times" heh heh. Apparently the only crime here is the hideously bad aim of our law enforcement officers.

This guy was on his way to getting his due-process until he became violent in the courtroom. Could he have been tazzered -maybe- but the officer only had a gun and shot him. For all you that are bleeding for this guy, put yourself in the witness chair and imagine if he was about to attack you. You would have first soiled yourself and then bought Xmas and birthday cards for that officer for the rest of your libtard lives.

"the rest of your libtard lives."

Oh god, it's spreading...

Did the guy deserve to die, I am not to judge,but if he just sat in his chair,he would still be here.

krellin, it is unfortunately impossible to avoid your world view, as it spills all over this forum like a leaky diaper. I genuinely believe that you don't or won't understand what contemporary political labels mean, but I usually self-identify politically as a libertarian or, in the right (non-pragmatic) mood, a Christian anarchist.

ckroberts - you don't know *jack shit* about my world view. You, of course, are making the moronic assumption that what I post here to provoke the Dance MOnkeys (that's YOU) is a true reflection of my world view.

Moron.

Anyway, JECE's phrasing is pretty good as an escalating formula to think about this. At best, this is unprofessional and unacceptable. I doubt charges would stick, and without more evidence I am not sure that they should be brought up, but at a minimum those responsible should never again (and never should have been) in a position to use lethal force in such circumstances.

krellin, your world view is one in which posting ignorant and hateful comments on a board game website seems like a valuable use of your time. That tells me enough!

I have to say, this reminds me of the case in Florida (connected to the Boston bombings) where the witness/suspect was shot while being questioned because of "violent actions". But anyhow, the fact that there wasn't some other way to protect the witness from the suspect is absurd- or as many people have already said, why wouldn't they have a tazer?

One thing we don't know is whether it was known that he had only a pen. Even if it was, he might have had something else on him, and as has been pointed out, a pen can be a very deadly weapon in the right hands.

It's not very far from the defense table to the witness stand, in most courtrooms. You don't have long to watch, you don't have long to think, and you're not going to get a second chance. I'm not going to second-guess this one, and people who are are just opportunists looking for a chance to pontificate when they weren't there.

Part of the problem with the informational age, is that things no matter how big or small make it to places where people can put in their two cents and knit pick at a judicial system that is so large,and inefficient, but yet there is no better place to live in the world. 25 years ago, you would have never even known this happened if you weren't actually there. That doesn't make it right,but shit happened and it's time to move on. As for the specific officer, they deal with the lowest of low day in and day out,and they make it so most of these scumbags are where they are. You guys go out and do their job...or better yet roam the streets without these guys doing their jobs. See how safe you really feel.

ckroberts - awwww.....did your undies get in a bunch? tsk tsk. Yeah, I know, the only hateful comments allowed are from fucktards like you, right? Typical libtard moron, wants the exclusive right to say hateful and hurtful things, but things anyone else's bullshit should be silenced with extremem prejudice.

Thanks, Libtard, but I don't play your little childish games. Fuck off, eh.

semck, here is my problem (sort of) with that. I think I agree that it would likely be wrong to charge the officer, although I would want more information - if he did shoot after the defendant was already on the ground, he needs to be going to trial himself. But let's say he just drew and fired in a panicked reflex, and that he stopped firing as soon as the guy went down. (I feel like, if the attacker had more than a pen, we'd have heard about it).

Part of the reason that police have such expansive privileges and powers in American society is supposed to be because they are better trained to use those abilities. Police carry and use guns in places other people cannot, on the assumption that they will use them to protect the public safety in a way which the average citizen could not be trusted. Whether or not you agree with this approach, the idea is that it is supposed to make everyone safer, because of the particular knowledge, skills, training, and background of a law enforcement officer.

So, I am not criticizing what you or I would do in that situation. I am criticizing what a trained professional is supposed to do: protect and the serve the public, if necessary by taking risks upon himself. A person who responds in the way that it seems like this officer responded should not be in that position.

krellin, I welcome different opinions and learning from other people, that is why I went into academia. You just have proven unable to make arguments or present opinions at a level which would be acceptable for a middle schooler.This doesn't necessarily make you a bad person, although it certainly doesn't reflect well. Rest assured when I call you a bloodthirsty authoritarian or imply that you lack fundamental reasoning skills that a decent high school education would have given you, I don't mean it to be hurtful, just a description of the situation as I see it.

@ckr, I have no reason to believe that the officer actually acted inappropriately, is the thing. It might have been the best response, and I'm unaware of a reason to think otherwise.

"(I feel like, if the attacker had more than a pen, we'd have heard about it)."

I was unclear, sorry -- doubltess he had no more than a pen. What I meant was that that might not have been clear at the moment that the Marshall had to decide how to respond.