Put simply, most employers won't even look at you without a bachelor's or equivalent experience. You aren't going to get a decent paying job with benefits as a software developer unless you have at least a bachelors, an associates with some experience, or lots of experience.

And self-taught developers don't follow best practices and don't fit in with skilled professionals who have certifications from Microsoft or Sun as their code will be, quite simply, shit. It may work but it won't be readable or maintainable and *that* is more important to the SDLC than anything else

@roller - I'm a C# and Java coder by day, but love C++ for game/graphics design. It's still so much faster execution wise, even if a little more effort is required for keeping the memory clean. But for business apps, C# (for Microsoft environments) or Java is the stuff.

Economics and programming can work together if you want to work on Wall Street or related businesses. Lots of physicists with programming skills went there to take economic models and turn them into computer code to predict markets. At least you would have some knowledge of the starting models.

Degree programmers have lousy code programming habits too. It took years before Microsoft started requiring programmers use best practices and restricting the worst they hired to not ruining their products.

@Draugnar, good to see that. C/C++ is and will be around as long as you're dealing with hardware, or until something 'better' pops up. I'm curious about C# but haven't had the chance to look into it as much as I'd like. Hopefully if I get this new job I might get some exposure to it (one of the dudes who interviewed me works with C#)

@Random - Yes, they can have bad habits too. But if they have any experience nowadays, those habits are being broken. When one doesn't have a background and knows no other way, it becomes nigh on impossible to break those bad habits, as is the case with selfies.

Some really bad and irrelevant advice in this thread, IMO. Many of the people commenting only seem to only understand their small bubble of the software world. Regarding a CS or engineering degree, it is really helpful when trying to get that first job, but after that the vast majority of jobs worth working at don't care about credentials and would hire a good programmer without a degree in a heartbeat. And economics/finance is much more applicable to this field than some people think, as the person who said "advanced communication and some politics" don't apply to software has absolutely no idea how development in the real world works because those are two extremely important factors.

Regarding languages, the worst advice I've seen in this thread are people telling you to learn multiple, extremely complicated languages right away. I would definitely recommend starting with a dynamic, scripting language like Python to understand the basics of programming. Python is a general purpose language that can solve most problems well and a great learning language because of its consistency. I recommend working through courses on Udacity or Coursera, many of which use Python as their teaching language. If you really apply yourself to the coursework, you will learn a ton and quickly close the gap between you and your CS-degreed competition.

Right now, the vast majority of programming is web programming, especially the kind that doesn't require engineering degrees. I was an embedded systems programmer for a while, but the demand for web programmers is significantly greater. This is also the kind of programming that generally puts less focus on algorithms and data structures, which are two areas where your degreed competition will likely have a leg up on you. You'll need to learn SQL eventually to use databases effectively, but in my experience you can probably fake it until you make it and get by with modern software frameworks.

Python is a fine language for server-side web programming, but you will also need to learn HTML, CSS, and JavaScript to be a well-rounded web developer. The great thing about learning these three frontend languages is that whether you are using Python, Ruby, Java, or Go on the server side, the client-side always uses the same front-end languages so they are ubiquitous and in high demand. The downside is that they are less elegant languages than for example Python and can be more confusing for beginners.

If you decide that you really want to work with low-level hardware, you'll need to learn C and/or C++ (which are very different languages). If you want to iOS programming, you'll need to learn Objective-C, and if you want to do Android programming, you'll need to learn Java. I don't recommend Java or C# as languages to focus on because while there are a fair amount of jobs for out there for these languages, they tend to be less interesting, much less enjoyable corporate jobs. Also, adequate enterprise Java and C# programmers are a dime a dozen these days, so the pay is often not nearly as good.

Regarding "portfolios", that specific term is more of a front-end or designer term. Generally for programming positions, people care about your open source output, which means your GitHub profile. Also, any place worth their salt will ask you to program during the interview, so this is much more important than showing some work which could easily have been plagiarized or exaggerated.

TL;DR: Learn python to get the basics of programming, then pick an area to focus on. Web and mobile development are the areas with the most demand right now.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, in the business world uses Python in the US (where the OP is located). Pick a language appropriate to what environment you want to work in.

And GitHub profiles don't mean shit. I don't even have one. I've been doing this since 1982. It's all I've ever done.

My opinion, screw Python. It won't get you a job. *Do* learn HTML/DHTML or better yet HTML5. Focus on technologies you see in use around the web like web services and learn what is behind them (like XML, AJAX, JSON, JQuery, etc) and you *must* learn JavaScript, but that is what all the Js in JSON, JQuery, and AJAX stand for...

JavaScript is used by everything from the aforementioned Python crap to JSP and PHP/Perl and ASP.Net. On that, I agree with bigworm. The rest is bullshit.

GitHub profile... Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually did plan to start with Python to learn how programming languages work. The 'theory' if you will (probably not the right term but the idea should be easy enough to understand) behind computer programming is (a) key to getting strong fundamentals and (b) something degreed computer scientists/etc. will have a pretty solid mastery of. That's what Draugnar was alluding to when he said the self-taught crowd doesn't follow best practices, I think. I'm definitely going to study the theoretical aspect of this, don't get me wrong. Python might be helpful for displaying the fundamentals if it's easier to access. Once I've got that down I'll get to the more directly useful languages.

@PE

As you may have realized by now, Computers are an immense field and you are simply too knew to have an idea what about them will appeal to you.

I think trying Python is a good start. I also think you should find an introductory book on Algorithms and one on Architecture to see if those aspects appeal to you. As others have said, you can be a successful high level program with very little understanding of these things, but those subjects may appeal to you.

Draug is right, python is almost never used in the workplace in the US and a git hub profile would serve me only slightly better then adding "WebDip Admin" to my resume.

Yes, but the freely accessible classes for Python are very good. Once he gets the basics down, he can learn something more useful.

Oh not disagreeing with that abge, just with the posts that suggested it'd ever be useful in the workplace. Conceptually the most important step in learning programming is understanding what every language is capable of doing and general formats in which to structure code. Once you learn what all languages are capable of it's only a matter of finding the right syntax in whatever language you're currently using, and google makes that easy.

I'm a Computer Science major. You can pick a up most anything on your own.

I wouldn't recommend starting with Python, though. C++ is a really good beginner language.

Whatever you do, do not start with Java. It does a few things odd and going C++ then Java is much easier than Java to C++.

How is C++ a better beginner language than python? Python is a good intro language because it's simple and intuitive.

Re:GitHub, I think you guys are misunderstanding the point. To get your first programming job without education, you need to prove that you have experience. GitHub is a good way to show off the projects you've worked on. Once you have actual work experience, it's less important.

I think C++ is a very good beginning language because of how many other languages are based on or derived from it (or C). It's flexible, has a lot of support, and has the best website around (www.cplusplus.com) for learning.

I learned how to code in C and I'm grateful for it. Once you fully understand what a memory pointer is, which is done primarily by studying and coding in C due to how other languages do memory management for you, you start to really understand how programs work, and learning other languages becomes so much easier. C++ is good as well without getting quite as low-level as C can get.

For me, I learned the following in order:
-HTML (real young, middle school)
-C++ (high school / college)
-Assembly (college)
-Java (college)

Working on picking up C# and some others now.

As JMO points out. Learn the concepts. The rest is just syntax and syntax can be found in reference materials like MSDN.

The point of starting with Python is that it is a good language to learn the fundamentals. But I totally disagree that "python is almost never used in the workplace in the US". Maybe in the boring-ass corporate bubble you live in they are afraid to use Python, but real companies like Google, Dropbox, and NASA use Python. A lot of scientific computing and machine learning is done using Python as well. Python is not my primary language, but it is absolutely a language worth learning.

Draugnar, maybe you have been doing this since 1982, but IMHO your advice is not useful to someone starting out their career. Top technology companies like Google, Amazon, and Facebook don't focus on hiring language lawyers; they try to find skilled programmers using whatever language suits their purposes. If someone is a good software engineer, the language doesn't really matter much; a good programmer can learn a new language, but it is much harder to pick up the fundamentals on the fly.

I guess if you are a .NET programmer, you may not have encountered GitHub, but for those of use using open source software instead of reinventing the wheel, GitHub is absolutely indispensable. If I see a candidate has forked open source projects and fixed bugs or added features, it is a strong sign that person knows how to solve real problems with software. I also use GitHub as a way to vet potential employers, as it is in their interested to open source projects when it makes sense.

Why do people keep recommending C++? Unless you are dealing directly with hardware or need to squeeze every last bit of performance out a program, C++ is rarely the right tool for the job nowadays. These jobs are also usually far from entry-level, so I don't think it makes sense to target them as first jobs in the field. There are definitely time where C++ is necessary (I have written CUDA GPGPU programs, for example), but I think it is much more important to be a well rounded programmer than to try to avoid all of the gotcha of one of the most complicated programming languages in existence.

@PE: There are a lot of responses from programmers but not many from people with an economics background. I also did an economics degree and now work in a job that uses skills that I learned at school, although I'm not an economist.

How math heavy was your econ degree? I find that some econ programs are pretty close to polisci or sociology where you don't even do calculus or anything beyond a stats course or two, while other programs are somewhat closer to a math degree and require real analysis, differential equations and a lot of econometrics.

What are you planning to do for the 5 years in which you learn programming? A lot of economists do a lot of coding as part of their job (matlab, r, stata, vba, sql, etc) even though they aren't programmers or engineers. You could also look into a job where econ/finance people work closely with coders. I'm thinking of a data analytics firm, an economic consulting firm or any type of trading floor environment but there are probably lots of other good examples. That way, you can find out better if you would really want to do coding and it would probably be easier to switch from the econ side to the coding side within a company you already work for.

I'm recommending C++ as a learning language, because most languages in existence today at least pull some stuff from it. It's also got a wealth of libraries and knowledge bases to look stuff up in to help yourself learn.

@Frank: That is a good point; data analysts are also in pretty high demand, especially with the emergence of "Big Data" (whatever we decide that means). Someone who can has the tools to take a large amount of data and discern useful meaning from it is very valuable.

@Chaqa: No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about. C++ is becoming less and less relevant to the majority of the job market. If you are dead set on going into games, C++ is still used, but this is a small minority of the jobs out there and the gaming industry is a notoriously broken culture that most people don't find enjoyable or sustainable, though there are companies like Valve which are the exception. If you really want to work in games in the modern economy, I would recommend learning Objective-C and writing iOS games.

I also don't understand what you mean by "most languages in existence today at least pull some stuff from it". Most of the language concepts in C++ were taken from other languages, not the other way around. For example, C++'s abstractions for OOP are far from the most elegant and were inspired by languages like SmallTalk and better done in Objective-C. I do agree that understanding pointers and memory management is important, but I disagree that this needs to be the first thing that you learn.

Also, I would not recommend wasting time on many certifications if you want to focus on development. If you want to go into computer networking CCNA and the such are table stakes, but for almost any other role the certifications matter little.

I don't know about that. My MCSD and Sun Java certs haven't exactly hurt my career.

MCSD was all the rage in 1997.

@bigworm - If you'll review what else I posted, I reaffirmed jmo's push to leanr concepts. All else is syntax and any decent programmer can self teach syntax. I'm having to learn X++ now for writing additional functionality in Dynamics AX. And note that I am also Java certified. I keep it current.

The real key is learning OO concepts like polymorphism and learn C syntax (curly braces and semicolons).

Oh, and most software companies do not release heir core product as open source. I have been working for software houses long enough to know that letting your trade secrets out in the open is a guaranteed way to kill your business.

President Eden - maybe you should stay on the economics/finance path, but learn a programming language that would be useful to someone working in that field. Maybe Matlab? Or R?

@mapu - Microsoft Certifications are still very important in the business world.