@Orath -- I'd like to have this discussion with you -- but maybe we should have it in a separate thread, instead of hi-jacking Mujus's thread. I think it's an interesting topic, for sure. Also I just fired up a glorious zombie flick (28 Days Later) to watch with the family in honor of The Walking Dead coming back tomorrow (lest you think I fired up a zombie flick in honor of a discussion of Jesus, the zombie god...)

Shall we try this again tomorrow?

@orath -- Oh...is that what you mean about language? Out of context snippets that totally lose their meaning at times -- or even give us absolutely different meaning, since the entire Bible is to be taken as a whole and understood together? Yes...that is an interesting point indeed, and further calls for the requirement that a person *interpret and explain* what they are talking about...yes...

Putin,
Christians believe there is one God (as do Muslims)
Hindu believe there are many gods.
These are contradictory.

Krellin, you are stating your beliefs as facts, but in truth, they are your beliefs. Here is one example: "God doesn't give a crap if you 'stop being a dick' unless you stopped being a dick ".

Other than attempting to ridicule me and/or judge me, you really haven't said anything that disputes what I said.

I used to be an atheist and considered believing in God just as silly as believing in the tooth fairy, unicorns or trickle down economy.

However, having been on this forum for a few weeks, being exposed to those bible verses, which I would not have known where to find otherwise, and which I have not at all mostly been ignoring, I have now seen the light. God loves me and trickle down economy works.

Hindus generally believe in a supreme god and that god takes many forms/avatars. For example, Vishnavism believes that Vishnu is the supreme god and has 10 different forms.
I fail to see why that would contradict Christianity. Jesus is just the particular form Christians worship.

@Krellin 'Oh...is that what you mean about language? Out of context snippets that totally lose their meaning at times'

Well not entirely, though i guess it is an example, the message doesn't require any particular language, but my

'Christians believe there is one God (as do Muslims)
Hindu believe there are many gods.
These are contradictory.' - well... Hindus may belief that there are many aspects of God, which represent different parts of nature/reality. Hinduism seems to be more about a structure for holding belief, so you can worship your own family god in your own way, (lets say) and Hinduism is a philosophy for how you are all worshipping the same thing in your own personal way.

But i might be very wrong. I think it is wrong to call Hinduism a religion, it is not the idea which we usually associate with the word religion - but alas that is the closest concept in english which we have.

Sorry, posted too soon :( It should read:

Well not entirely, though i guess it is an example, the message doesn't require any particular language, but my... point was more that you can't convince someone who doesn't believe the bible is the word of god by telling them what's in the bible.

You can engage them in a conversation about how to live, about things which actually hold meaning for them. You can attempt to convert them, but only by talking to them in terms they understand.

Does the trickle down economy matter to Christianity? Which bible verse should you quote? The message is what we agree is important, and the delivery is vital to that.

I agree with abge and Krellin here, I know there are practicing Catholics on the forum who probably would be interested in a discussion on the Bible. If you're looking for active participation you have to make your posts invite participation.

For example if Abge wanted to get people's thoughts on the forum rules he could post a thread asking for them. If he wanted to remind people of the site rules he would do what you're doing, post 1 a day. That wouldn't open conversation on the site rules. If you want feedback you need to ask for it. Up to this point I honestly didn't know you were looking to start conversations on the passages you post. I'm interested and skim through when you do have debates or posts offering interpretations, but just reading the passage every day isn't something I'm going to find interesting. Not if I get the feeling you don't want to discuss it.

I really think Krellin is right, that if you want conversation you should offer interpretations so that even non-religious people can quickly understand the gist of the passage.

Putin, No, it is not the particular "form" that Christians worship. Christians categorically state that there is only one God. You can't believe there is only one God, and that there are other gods simultaneously.

Another example: Judiasim denies that Christ is God. Either Christ is God or he isn't. This cannot be reconciled.

Other religions are similarly exclusive. Muslims believe Allah is the only true God. These are not different "forms" these are all incompatible beliefs.

.

Actually, Devonian, Muslims believe in the God of Abraham....Allah is your God of the Bible....

So since you are suddenly proclaiming to have a little knowledge of scripture, I'm still waiting for you to find me a **single** example of Mujus method of scripture delivery to justify his worthless behavior (in the eyes of God...yes, I'm judging)

Devon - another little clue - the Muslim's also believe in Jesus, and believe that he was a prophet, believe he did miracles...they just believe that Muhammed was the last Prophet.

Krellin, I ignored it because it is a silly request. They didn't play diplomacy back then. :-)

Seriously, They didn't have the ability to copy and paste, they didn't have the printing press, and many people didn't even read or write. Virtually everything was passed on by word of mouth. So, your challenge is meaningless.


"Actually, Devonian, Muslims believe in the God of Abraham....Allah is your God of the Bible...." Ishmeal was Abraham's son, true, but he was sent away, and the muslim religion that came from his descendants does not belief in the same God as Christianity. Allah is not the god in the Bible.

Krellin, "the Muslim's also believe in Jesus, and believe that he was a prophet, believe he did miracles...they just believe that Muhammed was the last Prophet."
- Are you trying to impress me with your tidbits of knowledge? It's not working. But, thank you for providing another example of the incompatibility of the religions for Putin.

See what I mean Mujus, all you had to do was ask, and you created more interest in the Bible in a few hours then you have the past few weeks.

then any people that disagree on any interpretation of a book in the bible believe in a different God.

Muslims believe in the Torah - they then part ways. They believe in the same God of creation, etc. That you want to be so naive to think that by applying another language for the word God (i.e. Allah) you have a new God is silly. Allah = God.

We have a dispute here over whether Mujus is required by God to do more than just copy and paste scripture....I say he is fully faulty because God says so in His book that He gave to you....you know, by people copying and distributing those copies, by the way.

You say because the Apostle Paul didn't have computers, he couldn't do that...but (you therefore assert) Paul would have just copied and pasted God's word if he could of, and not actually traveled and discussed scripture with people. Is that right? is that *really* what you want to assert, my foolish (in a VERY Proverbs way now) friend?

Anyway, let me just correct you right now before you make yourself look any stupider. The scripture Paul was talking about....it *WAS* written....and there *WERE* copies....and he was exapnding and and expounding upon it all.

I wonder if you actually go to church and listen to anyone teach? Because if you do, I wonder why? It's *clearly* not necessary in your world to explain and talk about scripture. So one way or the other, you are either a hypocrite, or a liar.

and for certain, you don't care much about the God you (I assume) claim to love, nor do you really give a crap about the Bible you claim to love, or you would actually *want* it discussed and explored, not ignored as has been the case with Mujus utterly pathetic attempts.

You are ridiculous, my man. I really think you need to get down on your knees and pray a little -- not mocking, being totally sincere -- and think about what you are defending and ask if "the bare minimum" is really the standard that your God sets for you.

Thanks, Jmo. I just thought it was very interesting that the previous threads had literally thousands of posts debating the existence of God every which way, and this one has almost no participation.

Thanks to all who have responded to this post rationally and sincerely. I'd like to hear more if anyone has anything else to offer.

If Muslims think that Allah is just a word then so be it. But, I have never heard of any Christian claiming to worship Allah.

"We have a dispute here over whether Mujus is required by God to do more than just copy and paste scripture"
- Since when? I didn't say he is required to do more, and I didn't say he is required to do less. I just said if he is called to do it, then he should. If he is not, then he shouldn't.

I guess there is no reason to respond to the rest of your mockery. But seriously, you use the word "stupider" and are worried about how I might appear.

i'm surprised by your restraint krellie, what's going on?

@Devonian, how do you know that the One True God didn't reveal himself in a different way to people in India? Are you saying you know his plan? Were you there to discount their experience? Are you saying the One True God is not capable of appearing differently depending on the circumstances?

'I just thought it was very interesting that the previous threads had literally thousands of posts debating the existence of God every which way, and this one has almost no participation.'

Yes, people like the sound of their own voices, and everyone is free to have an opinion about the existance or lack there of god.

'I didn't say he is required to do more, and I didn't say he is required to do less. I just said if he is called to do it, then he should.' - And Krellin roundly criticised you for this rather painfully inept appraisal.

Devonian,

What I'm getting at is why can't Rama and Jesus both be manifestations of the same god? Certainly the concept of the trinity allows for one god to appear in multiple forms. Couldn't the trinity be extended to include other forms?

And I echo the question from Orathaic. You earlier claimed god's mind is unknowable, in which case, how can we know that the Christian path to salvation is correct?

*or rather, the only correct path?

or to repeat an atheist arguement, why would your God be so cruel to the billions of people who grow up in Islamic or Hindu cultures? If religion is largely determined by where you are born, then God is indeed cruel and not worthy of worship.

On the other hand, if your religion was invented by man, and the ideas have a life-like quality, then to survive they must propagate and also prevent the adoption of other ideas. Thus humans must have invented a claim that theirs was the only true religion and all others must go to hell - which probably seemed much more reasonable when everyone you knew lived in the same village or country, before travel and communication made the world much smaller... oh wait, a time unlike today when your religion was 'revealed'.

Shit sorry, didn't want to get into that.... just ignore it, i'm sure you're not ready for it anyway.

"If Muslims think that Allah is just a word then so be it. But, I have never heard of any Christian claiming to worship Allah."

Devonian, I have to agree with krellin here. You are an ignorant fool about even your own religion. Some Christians actually live in the Arabic world and Arabic is their native language. Guess what word they use for that same God both you and them profess your worship for? That's right. They call him Allah, which is just the Arabic word for God and has been so long before Islam even came around. And yes, that includes translations into Arabic of your precious bible.

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/allah.html

With you're line of reasoning Spanish Christians are heretics because they call him Dios, German Christians call him Gott - wrong spelling so also heretics. In fact you are yourself an Anglo-Saxon heretic obviously for failing to call God by the name by which he supposedly revealed himself to the Jews, i.e. YHWH (Yahweh) and instead using a word derived from the Indo-European family of languages.

In fact Devonian, it seems that you are actually worshiping some spirit that supposedly inhabited some ancient Greek burial mound and that they called Zeus.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=god

"Old English god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person," from Proto-Germanic *guthan (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Dutch god, Old High German got, German Gott, Old Norse guð, Gothic guþ), from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (cf. Old Church Slavonic zovo "to call," Sanskrit huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke."

But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" (source of Greek khein "to pour," also in the phrase khute gaia "poured earth," referring to a burial mound; see found (v.2)). "Given the Greek facts, the Germanic form may have referred in the first instance to the spirit immanent in a burial mound" [Watkins]. Cf. also Zeus."

I must say, I do love it when religious people show such ignorance about their own religion. It goes to show how irrational being religious actually is.

I might add that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and in that language God is Elah.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Elah/elah.html

Is the use of Alah in english (instead of translating to God) an example of early Islamiphobia. Or is it likely that Muslims themselves tried to keep the distinction clear as part of their identity?