Useful reading on this subject: The Cuckoo's Egg, by Cliff Stoll. In between being a true-to-life hacker-hunting procedural, there's a lot of musing on the open culture the hacker is abusing, and how safeguarding networked spaces against such abuse will inevitably damage that culture. That tension between freedom and preventing abuse is a major element of modern net culture.

Thanks Chumbles, for expressing an opinion about the original issue raised.
I have made it clear many, many times that I accept the use of fuck and many of it's extensions etc. Carumba I have even made it clear that as much as I might dislike terms like majormitchellfucker, that I would accept that without complaint provided the other two words were not used.. I have only asked us to agree by consensus to not use two words in the Forum, they are motherf***er & the "C- bomb". WebDiplomacy does not allow unlimited freedom of speech.already. There is no right to unlimited free speech here for any member, with the possible exception of the Omnipotent Zultar.

SD's offer also reminds me of a scenario from Ariely's Predictably Irrational. When lawyers were asked to provide service to needy retirees for a small fee, they were more likely to refuse than when asked to do it for free. That's because doing the work as a favor invoked social norms, whereas the fee invoked market norms. As the author puts it, "money, it turns out, is the most expensive way to motivate people."

I guess invoking social norms doesn't work if social norms have been sufficiently damaged by prior interactions. I bet people have done studies on that sort of thing.

Now I may easily be mistaken, but for me to think that a thread titled Daffy old MajorMitchell is the worst player here because he is an emotional fool who NMR's and is thought by some to have unethically thrown Tom Bombarding a solo win" is not allowable, whereas I can be called a motherfu**ing C*** repeatedly.... I don't know what I am missing here, but quite frankly, I would much prefer to be called the worst player here because of the way I play, than to be called a M-F c- bomb
Watch the trolls seize upon that to call me both, the worst player here and a M-F c- bomb, and argue that it's essential to their purported right to freedom of speech that they be allowed to do so.

I think what ought not be allowed - disregarding the specific usage of vulgar vocabulary - is the type of excessive insults, hate, and targeting that was directed towards MM in this thread.

Not just in terms of social norms, there's a lot of research across domains of how money can harm motivation. Really interesting actually.

And yeah, pretty much what DO said. #DOshouldbeamod #DOforsiteowner

That's putting it as a personal thing, but my original reasons for suggesting that we agree to NOT use the two particular terms was because I think doing so would actually improve the forum for all users, but in particular for women and persons under the age of eighteen, that it would improve the WebDiplomacy site, make this site more friendly to new members.
I recall discussions about what do we think we could do to increase our membership numbers, to stop the loss of members.
I recall a drive to improve the "Decorum within the Forum " as I described it.

So do I think allowing, even encouraging by doing very little to prevent, the use of these two offensive, gender based terms is consistent with the two desired outcomes I have mentioned ? Well clearly I do not.

And as I have stated repeatedly, let's get there by common consent, not by punitive means

Soc you're <3, but the mod team doesn't like women so you're a better choice I think ;)

MM, what about the word bitch?

Thank you Lethologica, I will request that book from my library. That's a great thing about the revolution in communication technology, the linking of public libraries with this modern technology, if my local public library doesn't have a copy, they can instantly access the databases of all other public libraries in my state, find an available copy, and pop in a "hold request" & within hours the book is in a couriers van on its way.

Haha, I mean, I agree, I think I'm <3, but according to some i'm a "menstrual cycle", and that's probably close enough to a woman to make me a bad choice?

Still, you never know.

#SDforMod #hashtag

@_DO... Bitch.. If it's used correctly, to describe a canine female I'll accept it's usage. As an insult I am most uncomfortable when I hear it used, have spoken up, instantly & publicly about that to persons using it that way, and I don't use it in that way. When I was much younger I reacted quite violently and spilt the offenders blood when my sister was called a stupid bitch, or F***ing bitch, it's a long time ago, but bitch was used, but that was more about a big brother making it understood to all at a high school that he would protect his younger sister, than the actual word itself.
My little writing project is set partly in the USA, and I cringe when I consider using the term "Son of a bitch". But I have decided to use the SOB phrase because it's how a certain type of American character would speak.
I'll send you a PM

There are of course two terms that will never be used in anything I submit for publication.. M-F & C***

M F & C ... tastes almost as good as P B & J

Its not a particularly unreasonable request you guys. Plus I've got an excellent replacement term for you. Monkeyfucker.

Its got almost the same cadence to it, and is probably just as offensive.
You're welcome.

The creative process is spontaneity, two hours of muscle memory, blending, and trying to squint at what balances. My plan is never to know when im done

Ive lost alot of it as social media, introversion and money making have taken a wrecking ball to my motivation to create. Writing has saved me

I get waves of euphoria; energy. Its hard to paint and have a dialogue with canvas when I know I cant be there to narrate my meaning

Mitchell thought that a great way to get people to stop using a term whose only use is to offend... is to publicly stir up shit about how offended he is. That is probably the dumbest thing anyone has ever done.

Mitchell, you motherfucker.

Get lost Condescension, he's allowed to state his opinion on the forum without your verbal assault.

I'm allowed to state my opinion as well. My opinion is that this thread is probably one of the most hilarious un-self-aware things a person can possibly do.

You're not allowed to verbally abuse him for his. State that you disagree with him all you want, but this kind of attacking is immature and uncalled for. You should apologize.

@DO

um... actually a "Verbal Assault" depending on the view of the mods, is absolutely allowed on the forum.

MM is only allowed to be free of verbal assaults via muting, not removing Condescension.

It's the internet, get over yourself. If you get personally offended by someone insulting you (... or by someone else insulting someone else ????) you should probably go do something less universally toxic.

that's just an empirical fact via the rules of this forum. like that's an objective fact. we don't see a lot of them, but we've got one here

Hmm,

Like... what did he actually expect? That we would all read this thread, have a huge epiphany that "oh my god, my intentionally offensive language offended someone!!!" and then stop doing it?

This thread is horrible. For right now, I'm locking it.