I think a good point here is perhaps this: 50cc should be used to get good quality live games going. Perhaps a mission needs to be stated with regards to variants.

I also think that members should understand a piece of etiquette that seems to be agreed upon - if someone is trying to set up a game, do your best to support vs. stepping on toes. If you don't like the game-type they are creating tell them your conditions or present a new option for discussion without creating a game.

However, i think everyone probably overreacted here. By alll acccounts a good gunboat game wa splayed - what more could anyone ask for?

Geofram - I think what you are doing here is probably counter to the goals of most everyone who wants to play good live games. If you want to organize something different than go ahead and do it but please don't use your new venture to also belittle Balaran in his own thread.

"I also think that members should understand a piece of etiquette that seems to be agreed upon - if someone is trying to set up a game, do your best to support vs. stepping on toes. If you don't like the game-type they are creating tell them your conditions or present a new option for discussion without creating a game."

Lando, do you take my word that this is not what happened here? The game Balaran angrily refers to had timed out before I had seen anything about it. I would have happily played a full press game. I have no reason to lie about this.

I'm not belittling Balaran, I'm pointing out what I noticed the day he made the thread. That his need for control will ultimately make membership in this group undesirable.

My earlier post? About "Backstab: LIVE"? Was mostly a joke. But those should be the ONLY rules/goals of any club with the same mission.

Haha. I just got a private message telling me I'm banned from all games and from this thread. How is that even possible?

What?! Even moderators don't have that power.

DFTT (Im not quite sure who's trolling, but at this point discussion has stopped). We get that Geofram does not like the club, and Sarg/Balaran have different ideas of how it should be used.

For me, I will defer to Balaran since he is the one that has expended the effort on this club. I havent heard anything about 150cc, but it sounds like I like their-the key being on the different people-effort more, but since 50cc is active, that is what I will currently use.

Finally, having asked Balaran on PM and here twice, I may use this string to advertise non-50cc games that are password protected and players reviewed when he is not around. I will not name them 50cc. If Balaran does not want me to do so, please feel free to PM/post accordingly.

Again, pleasure to all and look forward to seeing you again.

Alright, I am being a little mean now. Plus its time to go find some dinner.
I'm gonna try to get a live game going in about an hour if there's not already one pending. See some of you then.

Sarg - sure, I'm not really concerned with how it went down. I just don;t want everyone coming out of this feeling victimized nor angry.

Maybe Balaran does need to relax. At the same time, he did put some time and effort into things here.

I think this site could benefit by people willing to be more collaborative. Everyone behind their monitors seems to always be so angst-ridden.

"I think this site could benefit by people willing to be more collaborative."

Absolutely. That is actually why I set up the new game immediately after the other ones died out. I wanted to help get things going again and I know that people like to join games with my name attached to them because they like the challenge and the potential for GR. I really thought I was helping and had I known only one person was allowed to create the games and everyone else on the site is just allowed to wait around until they are allowed to join, then I would not have done so.

Forgot I had a mobile phone!

"Time and effort?" He started a thread and demanded some rules. The only reason it looks like he's the only one making games is because that's the way he wanted it. He's throwing a temper tantrum over private message and I'm expecting it to come back here soon.

50CC wasn't created to get more quality live games made, it was created to be an exclusive club that Balaran controlled. Don't any of you remember having treehouses with secret passwords you only told your best friends? It's EXACTLY like that.

So how about that game?

Spring 01 had me nervous with Germany moving into Burgundy and Italy moving to Pie. Thankfully, Austria helped me by moving into Venice to halt Italy's attack.

Fall 01 I hoped Italy would bounce my move to Marseilles since he couldn't take Venice back. No suck luck, and I build one.

Spring 03 I finally corral Germany's unit in my territory, but England moves to the channel. Germany helps by moving into the North Sea to force England to defend himself instead of join in on the attack....phew.

Fall 03, I see Turkey making his move on Italy. Cant let him fall because then I'm next, so I pop out to the Eest Med to help Italy get Tunis back; if he loses a unit, he will fall.

Fall 04, support Italy into Tunis, but he walks into Marsailles...crap. He has to realize this isn't good for either of this, right?

Fall 05, he lets me walk back into Marsailles. Phew, he knows the situation we're in. Also, England helps me hold Belgium; time to get Germany.

06, I move to the North Sea and the Irish Sea. I hope England isn't too nervous, need him to get Liverpool back so Germany doesn't take him out and take me out afterward. Germany has stopped attacking, so he either thinks or is hoping I help him finish England. I decide that would not be in my best interest long-term and keep with the plan.

That's pretty much when the game drew. From my point of view, it was starting to get real interesting and I'm curious as to where the game would head after that. but it seemed people wanted to get it over with, and there was little chance I would actually win the game, so i agreed to the draw.

As I am still a novice, I think I played pretty solid. I'm open to any advice or pointing out any glaring mistakes I made.

"The 50CC live games club provides Gamestarts for regular and gunboat Diplomacy. It aims to make games which don’t suffer from dropouts. Everyone is welcome! PLAYERS WHO DROP OUT AT ANY STAGE OF A GAME WILL NOT BE PERMITTED TO PLAY AGAIN!"


That message above is the opening advertisement for all to join this club. Is the 'Everyone welcome' aspect meant to be ironic?

I am not a megalomaniac! However I do want to ensure that those who play games in 50CC get a pleasurable experience which isn't tainted by CD. I have been asking in this thread since its inception for a few other people to help me run the games as I will struggle because I am EU based.
However I do want to make sure that all players are checked out and have read and understand the rules before playing! If this make me a control freak or megalomaniac then so be it!

@Sargmacher "Haha. I just got a private message telling me I'm banned from all games and from this thread. How is that even possible? "

Can you please clarify that I did not send that message to you please as people may think i'm truely crazy!

Everyone is welcome! I have not turned anyone away as yet! However I have carefully explained the rules to all! Even Lando when he joined our game yesterday had the standard message I send to all. No one can say they didn't know the rules! Everyone is welcome, However I would point the true noobs to the site with only a game or 2 under their belt to pehaps play a few more before playing with 50CC. This is for the enjoyment of all

@Sarg "Lando, do you take my word that this is not what happened here? The game Balaran angrily refers to had timed out before I had seen anything about it. I would have happily played a full press game. I have no reason to lie about this. "

The only issue I saw was that the game times out due to one no-show, so Balaran posted we needed one more to start. Immediately after, you posted the game you created, when you would have been the seventh in the new game Balaran was organizing. I think this is what caused the conflict.

Many thanks to those of you who have expressed gratidude for the games that have been played in 50CC. I appreciate your PM's.
Virtuslatin will run the games for the next couple of evenings as I can't get to the computer too much

gratitude.

grat·i·tude   [grat-i-tood, -tyood] Show IPA
noun
the quality or feeling of being grateful or thankful:

Thanks Skittles. I will also give my EOG.

First, I hate Russia. The best advice I ever got is to play it as a three center country. Pick North (stp, mos, war) or South (mos, sev, war), and play those centers as if they were a stand alone country, without trying to defend the outlier too much to detract from other efforts. I pass that along here in case other people found it helpful.

01: I picked south. I was happy I did because Germany opened to Denmark, suggesting a sweden block, and England opened to do the traditional stp 02 siege. Not to mention Austria's attack on Italy(?). Holding Gal in the fall with an open Austria, I thought it was worth a shot, and decided to go for Bud. With Germany in Den in the spring, I thought he would block sweden, so I thought I might try to invite England to look south rather than at STP. Fail.

02: With a no bounce black sea fall and fleet smyrna, I thought we were good for a jugger alliance. I give up stp per the north/south plan above, and build armies accordingly. I order support for turkey to serbia, but he takes me totally by surprise with his attack. I assume I am losing sev because England failed to bounce me in stp as planned. I decide to try to take over Austria and just go for a survive.

03: Pure survival mode. Get Austria, block further advances. Not much insight here. The German advance on England was quite welcome. Was worried about a convoy to Livonia or the like. Austria has never defended Trieste, so I try that route. Surprised it worked since it seemed clear that Italy would take Venice back that year. Also thankful England never established more than beachhead while I was trying to secure my northern borders.

04: Thank you Italy. Your support was both hoped for and a large part of why I survived the game. By the fall, it was looking more and more like I would have to utilize Austria as a base, so gave up on trying to give Sev back to try to make myself more secure in my borrowed country. Plus, with turkey taking Ser, it was clear that Austria would have to try for trieste, which looked to be unsupported, so I figured I could waltz to bud and hope for support in trieste.

05: I know Italy with its new found strength will want Trieste, so the best I can do is harass the turk since Austria isnt a threat any more. Serbia cant be supported if I cut it, so I do that. Lots of luck guessing how and where Turkey is attacking from moscow. If he had attacked from sev and bounced me with black sea, I am again paralyzed.

The rest seems fairly self explanatory flips of the coin. Towards the end, I figured Italy had to ally with me since I was literally the only country left with enough landpower to delay turkey. There were so many fleet builds that game that I was quite surprised to find a no army italy, a few army germany, and a several fleet france. If Turkey hadnt been such a constant threat (or if the game had continued a couple moves and we reached an uneasy truce), there was serious potential for me to walk in behind the german lines. I just needed one more build, but couldnt get my centers empty due to the Turk.

Well, after all the drama, lets play a nice relaxed gunboat game at 4pm EST, 9pm GMT. I will set up the game. PM me for password.

Sorry to be so ignorant about this thread, but I have gotten a sense of a bit of the drama here, and it's got me curious. Can anyone summarize quickly?

Geofram, if you don't like how Balaran is running the club he started, why not bud out, live and let live? I'm confident constructive criticism would be welcome, but it's not always what you say, sometimes it's how you say it.

Sarg, you seem a bit bitter yourself, why all the anger?

I'm sure few, if any, care, but the thing that ruins games for me on this site more than anything else are NMRs and CDs. I think it's a great idea to pull a group of like-minded people together with that in common, and in fact, is exactly how I judge which games to play, for the most part. I like GR challenge games for that very reason, and I like "high" buy-in games as well since people tend to take it more seriously and are more engaged with that sort of game. Anyway, again, I'm curious what the problem is, seems like if people don't like what's going on here, and some do, that those not liking it would just mind their own business (unless, again, they were offering constructive criticism meant to improve the situation, and in a constructive way) so that those that do can go on having fun and enjoying the unique concept.

Not bitter at all. :)

Glad to hear it!

LOL, I'm sensing sarcasm, actually, but as I said, I don't have a good sense of what's going on in here.

Reminds me a bit of the leagues. Personally, I hate them, I hate metagaming, and both times I played in leagues I seriously butted heads with one person in game one and then was stuck in 3-4 more games with that person, which was miserable for all involved (for the most part). Anyway, some people love the leagues. If asked about the leagues, I'll certainly rant a bit, but otherwise, why would I care if people are playing in the leagues and having fun, except for, I think it's great, everyone is different, so the more small niches we have for people to be comfortable, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

PS - Some may think I play GR Challenges because I'm obsessed with GR and want to keep mine up or something like that, but my overwhelming reason is to get quality games that are not likely to have NMRs and CDs, period.

No, I wasn't being sarcastic. Although I do see how it could be interpreted that way. No, I wasn't bitter or heated at all. I feel my comments can easily be seen as rational and considered - apart from the ones made in jest, which came to the end of the debate.

I took part in the first game and thought it very good. I am, however, a little confused over the difference between a NMR and a CD and how this difference affects the club rules. Can any one please clarify? Thank you in advance.

Virtus I'll join the game you're setting up.

An nmr=no moves received. A CD (here)=two phases of not checking in (i.e., more than not entering moves). A player can tactically chose to NMR one turn. Typical tactics do not call for doing so twice.

My understanding is that a CD will get you banned from the club. A single turn NMR will not, precisely because of the tactical basis. I am fuzzy on a two turn NMR with no CD-- you would have to ask Balaran, but my guess is that Balaran would ask you to justify. If provided with tactical reasons, no issue, but if no reason, likely a ban.

just out of curiosity, what would a tactical nmr be?