Obama won. Shut up

Yeah, it's all over. Well, the election is. I don't know how the country gets past the fiscal cliff now...

We are going to be hearing about voter fraud for the next 2 months, you shut up.

"I don't know how the country gets past the fiscal cliff now... "

Yeah should be tough with the house stonewalling and republicans in the senate filibustering. They just lost this election on several levels, its time for the republicans to give way some. I doubt they will. They'll act like they won a mandate.

It's not as if Obama won one.

With Romney there was almost a hope that this was all sorted out. With Obama there is none. It may not happen right now, but I don't know if we'll make it to the Rand Paul administration with anything like the world we have now. As always, I hope my pessimistic self is wrong.

With Obama there is none.

Only if the Republican house continues to refuse any compromise, you are right. Ball is with out a doubt in the republicans court. You just lost a presidential election. Democrats gained seats in a senate race they should have been vulnerable.

How can you possibly play hardline 'My way or the highway' conservatives in an environment like this?

And its going to be very simple to see where the problem is. If the refrain is still "No new taxes" its your party. You lost, time to come to the table and do something other than try to get the president fired.

Don't pin this on me. I'm just playing out what they'll likely do.

There's no hope for a real solution to the crisis under Obama not just because of Republican stonewalling (which is a reality), but also because the solutions which need to happen are anathema to him and the Democrats. Like Medicare reform, which now will not happen. Not even means testing, which just screws rich people. The deficit will continue to be a trillion dollars a year indefinitely. It's all a mess now with this status-quo election. I don't know what will happen.

Maybe we're looking at the abyss over this fiscal cliff. Maybe it's time to give up and be good social democrats, running in place as the world economy not only moves to Asia, but puts sod down and joins the PTA. I don't know.

Democrats have been and continue to be willing to make cuts but they want to be met half way. All you hear from Republicans is no new taxes.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/boehner-lays-down-a-marker-on-taxes/?hpt=hp_t2_6

Boehner confirms what we already know. Damned be the death of several harline republicans, an increased senate majority, the reelection of the president and exit polls which showed 60% approval for increased taxes.

Repubs have the house and Repubs refuse to compromise!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/boehner-lays-down-a-marker-on-taxes/?hpt=hp_t2_6

If the House Republicans don't compromise with Obama now it'll be disastrous for them.

Their objective for at least two--really four--years now has been to stonewall Obama and hope to stonewall him into submission, run out the clock on his presidency, and sit on the ball, to keep with our football metaphors.

That failed, and now Obama has nothing to lose.

They can't run out the clock on his presidency for another four full years, there'd be an uproar such as has never been heard before, it'd be party suicide. This is a party that just got shellacked by a coalition of minorities, and that Coalition IS the New America--

Blacks, Latinos, White Youths at the Coasts--myself included--the LGBT community, Women, with whom Obama had a 12% plus according to CNN...

Obama lost at 40/60 ratio with white voters to Romney, and that number increases for those 45 and over. Even still, he not only won the election convincingly, he won the electoral AND popular vote.

This IS the New America, and the Republicans need to realize that and appeal to them or else be lost.

They don't have the high ground at this point, and the Billy Graham, George Bush era of Evangelical movement on the Religious Right is at an end.

The Republicans can't politically or economically continue to stonewall Obama completely or take such a hard-line stance on social issues.

As a final note--see, Mr. Romney, attempting to pander to the Jewish vote by flouting a faux fissure with Obama and Israel didn't pay off, we STILL voted 70%+ for Obama.

If they continue to stonewall them its very bad for us all. Its called brinksmanship, and i believe the republicans are quite ready to engage in healthy doses of it to force their policies down the countries throat

It's not my country, anymore, and it has nothing to do with race.

Small-government republicanism is dead. The country of Madison and Hamilton is gone.

oh, there was an election? Oh good things will be different? Oh, no, ok. see ya again in 4 years for another dog and pony show.

The countries of Madison and Hamilton were in the first case

1. Very different countries
2. been dead for nearly 200 years

You can live in your fantasy world all you want, but small government republicanism was first voted down with the National Turnpike.

ah, bring back Franklin then, and NOT Ben.

dipplayer2004 is right. Obama isn't Jimmy Carter. He's Clement Attlee. Things will never be the way they were again.

I found this Forbes article interesting.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/

Sacred that is a really misleading article. Just because the percent increase in spending under Obama is small, doesn't mean he's not spending a shitload.

I mean if president Sacred digits doubles a 1 Billion dollar spending plan to 2 billion, that's a 100% increase. If President Yellowjacket wins the next election and increases it by another 1 Billion dollars, is my 50% increase somehow not as bad as your 100% increase?

I'm not saying Obama is spending on silly things, but these numbers don't even come close to telling the full story.

So Santa Claus... you never addressed the fact that Obama's plan simply does not address the deficit or the fiscal cliff AT ALL. You seem to believe that Republicans in the House are to blame by 'stonewalling' Obama's policies. That's funny, because the policies which they are attempting to block include more spending, more departments, and more bureaucracy. If Obama has his way, term #2 will include another disastrously wasteful stimulus bill, more pork-barrelling, and probably more Solyndras... An extra trillion dollars per year for the next 4 years is a safe bet. At this rate we will probably never see another balanced budget again. Thanks for screwing over future generations of Americans with ungodly amounts of debt wooooo Socialism!

But wait no problem because if we continue down this path we'll turn out like Spain, Italy, and Greece and these same policies have worked wonders for them right?

@THEWHITEMAN: "wooooo Socialism!"

Sorry whitey, but Obama is not a socialist, and his policies do not represent "socialism". Just because he isn't an extreme libertarian minarchist, that doesn't make him a socialist.

Hey, I wouldn't mind if the Republicans continue to just stonewall...so, we go over the fiscal cliff. Democrats propose a new set of tax cuts which is essentially the same as the ones that were in place except for those over $500k, and Republicans vote against it? I don't mind cuts to the military, and the other things will be cut anyway in any deal.

I find this liberal narrative of 'conservative Obama' so fascinating. The fact that he aggressively uses drones like a neo-con dipshit doesn't make him conservative. If you honestly believe that Obama is 'not a Socialist' then I think you need to learn what that term actually means. He has extended the sphere of government influence further into our private lives than any other president in History. 115 new agencies slated to be created in the next 4 years, millions have been added to foodstamps (and millions more to come), and 99 week unemployment pay? Sounds like socialism to me. Years from now our kids are going to love this debt we are saddling them with... They will be so happy that Obama was such a caring guy.

"115 new agencies slated to be created in the next 4 years, millions have been added to foodstamps (and millions more to come), and 99 week unemployment pay?"

Thank you for demonstrating you have no idea what socialism is. I can now disregard anything else you have to say on this matter.

@THEWHITEMAN:
Heh. Bush did more, by far, to expand government than Obama has. The increase in food stamp and unemployment pay is a temporary response to the huge recession we went into right before he took office. These are some of the recommendations that economists make to help soften/recover from recessions.

Obamacare is actually not socialist, as it is done through the private sector. It is the Republican response to the Democratic health care system of the 90's. Obamacare was first put in place by a Republican governor. Just because you hate it, doesn't make it socialist. As I would have been much happier with the socialist solution (which, it seems like Obama could have done without it being filibusterable by just making a change to Medicare).

It doesn't matter. You have a whole load of people, pundits, think tanks and other people screaming that Obama is a socialist. Take your facts from wherever you want to...someday, hopefully you will realize that you are not seeing the whole of reality.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

As I look at it, it looks like Federal Spending and Federal Deficit are going down.

Whiteman, if he is a real socialist, and keep in mind, I dislike the man a lot, he has not shown in...yet.

He has not tried to Nationalize a single industry (well, maybe the auto a bit) .

Now that is theliteral definition, and I am not sure it has ever been reached at any time in our history with socialism/communism.

Obama has attempted to increase state control over the economy, energy, and certainly healthcare and certainly education, so in THOSE ways, he is acting as a socialist.

In the Communist manifesto, it actualy gives you a 10 point plan to socialize a nations economy.

State Control of property ONe thing obama has done, has asserted regulatory control over large amounts of acres, most of which control domestic energy supplies, Of course, he cant do it fast enough if he was a real socialist, but he and his boys are trying, at least on the surface.

2) Progressive income taxing....this one he is doing. tax the rich MORe. They pay about 40% of the taxes already, but its NOT ENOUGh, so lets hit them again....

3) Abolition of inheritance taxes. He has not done it, but is on record of wanting estate taxes.

4) Confiscation of Rebel property. Now, in literal words, we have no rebels, unless you are talking about financial rebels. he has went after off shore money AND BANKS THAT PROTECT Americans money from taxing. I am not really against this, but he is following a pattern.

5) Centralizatino of country financials syste, Dodd-FranK anyone?

6) State control of communications and transportation. If the Faaairness Doctrine comes back, we willknow the truth of it. Transportation, I dont see anything from him on this front.

7) Increase state control over production. In some ways, Cap and Trade is effecting this, and EPA is like some Gestapo force now, so maybe this is the avenue, but otherwise I dont see it

8) Establishment of Workers Armies. Thisone he IS doing...Full force. He is deeply in bed with labor unions, increased the government employees by a large %, huge expanison of Americorps and his passage of "serving America' act. This one I see easily..

)Control over where people live. Not happening that I can see yet.

10) Free educatioon. He has sought control of all student loans for higher education. I am not sure thatis what this is, but it is not without merits.


Do I think he is a socialist? Probably, his education and friends then mostly ran in those circles,. However, he is not showing it, and is not really going full fofce with it, however, lets see where we go with this.

remember, Frank Marshall Davis....100% a communist (was on FBi list) was a very good friend of Obama's and was spoken of only as 'Frank' in Obama's books over 30 times.

The man has ties that way, and has some socialist tendencies, and is following a pattern, and to deny it is stupid, but he is not showing himself to be a socialist.....yet.

btw, if Bush is yoru measuring stick, you have lost already. He was a highly unpopular president, why do we keepusing him to compare obama against? If Obama cant be better than Bush, then he is a failure

"They pay about 40% of the taxes already" I love how its always stated like this by conservatives. As if that matters. Just because you take in a shitload of money and thus pay a shitload of NET tax doesn't mean a damn thing.

What percent of their INCOME do they pay? 15%? less? I really don't know. Less than a two income family of 4 earning $70,000 a year, I guarantee that.