@Octavious: You are British right? Is it the British National Party in your country that could be your "fascist" movement? I'd be curious to your thoughts about the situation on the Island.

Living in the UK I would tend to agree with Octavious. Yes there are some nutty extreme right-wing Nationalist political groups in the UK, the BNP chief among them (others being the National Front and the English Defence League).

They are horrible, odious, racist little thugs, and it upsets me that any number of people would be willing to join such a cause, but most of their members are thick as shit, to be honest, and I don't see them as a credible threat to democratic stability.

Not that we live in a democracy anyway, of course. To call the current system in the UK a true "democracy" is a bad joke.

I suppose. It would be wrong to say they are a new thing though. The extreme right minority has always existed, although traditionally in the UK they went via the guise of the National Front and were mostly skinheads in t-shirts. I think they still exist at some level, but most of the far right support now finds its home in the BNP (where they wear suits and pretend to be a real party) and the English Defense League (which continues the old skinhead traditions, but styles itself as a protest group against Islamist extremism).

Both groups are pretty small, and the BNP have only had a few freak results in a couple of councils that had pretty extreme local issues, and I think two seats in the European Elections that are treated by British voters as Mickey Mouse affairs.

Fascism really has no chance in the UK. There just isn't any fertile soil for it to grow. The right leaning members of the British public, which such groups would hope to expand into, are the flag wavey sort who like to say they're proud to be British, and one of the things their proudest of about Britain is defeating the Nazis. As such voting for a facist style party is as alien to most of our right wingers as it is to our left.

In Europe things may be a tad different.

@Jamiet

A bad joke, you say? The people I voted for got in, and they're doing pretty much what I wanted them to do. Democracy has never worked better! We've even had votes about how we should vote. How much more democratic do you want? :p

I just find it a shame that people like Nick Griffin, who has a degree from Cambridge is putting his (what must be) good brains to waste by being a racist arse.

@ Octavious: You *want* the government to dampen growth, drive the UK back into recession, wage an ideological war against the public sector, put tens of thousands out of work, and give £billions in tax breaks to their chums?

I don't.

If you're one of the small minority whose interests are actually benefited by the current system and the current government, then bully for you. Well done.

I currently work in a department which saved the taxpayer over £11million in the last year, and we are currently facing staffing cuts as a direct result of government cuts. So I'm not so keen.

And before you presume I'm pro-Labour, I'm no fan of Milliband either, thanks.

UKIP is surging I think last I saw they were the 3rd most popular party, so it's clear that the far-right has plenty appeal in Britain, or at least England.

If Scotland goes it alone then the rump UK will be hopelessly rightwing.

Putin can you link me in to where you found this data? Im struggling to find anything to recent. I no expert but I haven't noticed any surge in UKIP if I am honest.

http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/IoS_SM_Political_poll_11Dec11.pdf

Page 7.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011/12/16/labour-claims-by-election-win-as-lib-dems-fight-off-ukip-sca

I guess in the by-election Lib Dems did score third place, but not by much.

Putin, how's life? Still left of center, going strong? ;-)

Hi Putin. UKIP have caught up with the LibDems and in some polls in late 2011 were just slightly ahead of them. I would make a number of comments on that, however:

1. UKIP aren't really a "far right" party. They are obviously quite nationalistic but otherwise really middle-right rather than far right. They are certainly nothing like the BNP who remain a tiny fringe party lacking any serious credibility.

2. UK opinion polls quite often show a slight swing towards smaller parties when a government is in mid-term. Electoral history also shows, however, that a lot of the people who tell the pollsters they'll vote for a fringe party then actually revert back to voting for one of the main parties when election time comes around. I can pretty much guarantee that unless some weird things happen in the next 2-3 years, UKIP will not be a significant force in the next Parliament.

3. The fact that UKIP have caught up with the Lib Dems is as much down to how much a substantial proportion of British people currently despise the Lib Dems for being a bunch of lying weasels who helped the Tories take power.

4. Europe has been in our news a lot lately, and a lot of British people (on the left as well as the right) don't much care for the EU. UKIP, being pretty much a single-issue anti-EU party*, stand to temporarily gain in the polls when the debate about Europe is more prominent in the press.

* Unless you consider "Leave the EU!" and "Keep the Pound!" to be two seperate, unrelated issue areas.

I'll have to disagree with your view on whether UKIP is center or far right. UKIP is in association with extremist parties like the Italian Lega Nord, True Finns, Danish People's Party, and Freedom Party of Austria. Their leadership are notorious for making racist statements and their economic agenda is to the right of the Tories in terms of its savage cuts and tax breaks for the rich. If anything they're more extreme than the BNP, who at least want to preserve the welfare state.

As for the rest, you're likely right. Although people who used to vote Lib Dem are probably not going to turn around and vote UKIP, since they're polar opposites on immigration and Europe. So while distaste for Lib Dems explains their fall it hasn't explained UKIP's rise, which however is probably explained by your other points. We'll see what happens in the next general and how much Cameron panders to the anti-Europe base.

IMO if BNP wasn't so overtly nutso but had a more polished image like UKIP they'd be big winners right now. In 2009 they were on the cusp of a breakthrough, but their own internal stupidity has made it so they are out of the picture. I think BNP's economic policies would appeal to dissatisfied Labour voters whereas UKIP can only really siphon votes from the Tories.

what you respond to my thread but not to me??? How the fuck are you?

This is webDip, once the thread is rolling, OP doesn't matter ;)

I disagree.

I'm alright, thanks.

''4. Europe has been in our news a lot lately, and a lot of British people (on the left as well as the right)''

An excellent point, I have a distant memory of Tony Benn and Enoch Powell sharing a platform on this issue.

Bye the bye on the UK and fascism has anyone heard of the Bridgwater bi-election of 1938? Rather shakes up the conventional view that the country was fully behind Chamberlain and appeasement, I think.

This is where you ask me how I've been. :)

Hey redhouse hows the symphony coming.

Ahh never mind - hoe gaat het redhouse?

ja prima fulhamish hoe is het met jou dan?
@PE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-6Cgq_zZGk bueno

Wow, well done, sir.

"Should Britain promise assistance to Czechoslovakia if Germany acts as it did towards Austria?" (Asked March 1938)

Yes: 33%
No: 43%
No opinion: 24%

I'm at a loss about how a by-election reflects on foreign policy. The Tories won a by-election in Preston on 36, a year after the British betrayed the four-power pact and signed on to German rearmament with the naval treaty.

Putin how have I been?

@ Putin

Most of the BNP's limited support does indeed come from traditional Labour voters. UKIP being a far right party is the funniest thing I've heard for years. They are just Conservatives who dislike EU membership so much they broke away from the main party. As they have know they have no chance of ever winning power they have the ability to promote their pet economic theories which are no different from what the Tories would have if they thought the public would let them get away with it

not sure how that extra "have" got in there...

"As they have know they have no chance of ever winning power they have the ability to promote their pet economic theories which are no different from what the Tories would have if they thought the public would let them get away with it"

So how is that not far-right? Their economic policies are too extreme for the public, but they're center-right? What?

Their economic policies are experimental. Interesting ideas moreso than anything they would ever stick to should they oneday become popular. Like what the Libdems have done with many of their policy ideas for the past God knows how many years. To describe them as far right policies would be rather missleading in this context. UKIPs are not Nazis in disguise by any stretch of the imagination.