*accumulating

By allowing a central bank to issue money at interest.

It really is that simple.

Isn't it simple? KA stole it while we were prostrating to him ;)

Nah, how can it be in debt when it owns, like, the whole world. It's a lie, dude.
You must seperate public debt from private debt.
How many billionaires are there in the world, and how many are U.S. citizens?

By issuing money at interest, there will always be more debt than money to pay that debt.

I have friends who rack up huge credit card debts. They love to consume, but don't they have any financial sense and lack self control. With just a little restraint they could enjoy a better lifestyle by holding off on those purchases until they can really afford it. But hey, their human, and finance isn't their area of expertise, so it's not that surprising they make bad decisions about money. But America - the world greatest country, with some of the smartest and best educated people in the world... I would expect the powers that be to have more sense than my friends. How did the government let it get to this point, and how will things ever change. If America did not have the self control to stop itself reaching this point, how will it achieve the necessary self-control to turn this around. I just find it extraordinary. How could America be so dumb (other countries have been dumb too, but America is supposed to be the best of the best). What is going to happen?

America will come back stronger than ever. Always does.
You heard it here first!

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1844547,00.html

Darwyn I understand your debt theory of money, but even within those parameters of Fractional reserve banking and fiat currency, it would still be possible for the government not to be in such enourmous debt (just the Steve Martin skit says - Don't buy things you can't afford).

Fiedler, yes America is still a rich country, but still this growing debt is still a problem - specifically servicing the interest payments. This money will have to be recovered via taxation and will it reduce economic growth. Both Spain and France were once the most powerful countries in Europe - the main reason for their downfall was debt and the interest they had to pay. Continued debt is just sustainable.

typo ... (ever increasing) debt is just *not sustainable.

lol
+1 President Eden

"By issuing money at interest, there will always be more debt than money to pay that debt."

Ah, Darwyn sounds like a believer in social credit. Trouble is, if you don't issue money at interest you are *guaranteed* to get runaway inflation. The real problem is one of psychology. If the gov could just print money without having to worry about paying interest on it, then how could they ever say NO to their electorate?
Think big projects would just go gangbusters and then you get the 10,000% inflation. Money is fundamentally a form of CONTROL. The interest on issuing it keeps us *somewhat* in touch with reality, and keeps this pretty cool system that we have ticking along.

That said, they have f*ked it up lately, the experiment in market self-regulation being a VERY bad idea. It turns out.

But to address the topic, if they can't pay the interest they can just default and basically reset the whole freakin system. But that won't happen. The interest will be paid and things will come right in about...? 10 ? years or so. That's what I reckon anway. Wish I was Australian, those roo-worriers are sitting pretty, relatively speaking.

spyman - you need only think it through...

Money is created out of thin air in response to a loan. So there is always more debt than money. And *new* money is created to pay the interest on the old money. this is what makes it a pyramid scheme.

Under this debt-based system, growth is a euphemism for more debt.

The system can only last as long as their are new borrowers.

There are no more new borrowers.

The system is collapsing.

it was designed this way.

"The real problem is one of psychology."

lol...uh, no it isn't.

"The interest on issuing it keeps us *somewhat* in touch with reality, and keeps this pretty cool system that we have ticking along. "

Many nations have issued money without interest...to the benefit of it's people. Interest plunges all nations into a debt they can never get out of...how is that a "pretty cool system"? Also, it isn't ticking along so well now, is it?

"The interest will be paid and things will come right in about...? 10 ? years or so."

The interest will *never* be paid! Ever.

Not ever.

I can remember 5 years ago, I was self-employed and people were just throwing money around like it was confetti. The GFC is, in part, a correction after a VERY big party.

"The system is collapsing" - jeez Darwyn, better stock up on baked beans then. They're delicious.

"The interest will *never* be paid! Ever."

- sorry, I meant the interest payments, obviously ;P

"market self-regulation"

this certainly can speed things up or slow things down..but the end result is the same...DEBT that you can never get out of.

Issuing money at interest is the absolute crux of the problem. Start there first. Discussing anything else is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. It's a waste.

"Many nations have issued money without interest...to the benefit of it's people."
- examples please?

"it isn't ticking along so well now, is it?"
- could be worse. Darwyn you're like a guy who wants to crush his car because it ran out of fuel once. Or something :)

"DEBT that you can never get out of."

- have you heard of deflation? Or debt write-offs? Or... so what? Does a little national debt stop you sleeping at night?

Germany - c.1938
United States - c.1863

Just off the top of my head...there are others.

"could be worse."

Where do you live? yes, it could be worse...and it will. It's the system fiedler. The system is designed to keep us in debt.

"Issuing money at interest is the absolute crux of the problem. Start there first. Discussing anything else is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. It's a waste."

Well it's amazing how many people on this forum know better than GENERATIONS of professionals. I guess we will find out the truth in time.

fielder - the Fed issues money at interest. Do you know what this means?

It means that for every $100 Congress borrows, the Fed expects $10 in return. but that $10 doesn't exist. Congress can only borrow more to pay that interest.

Do you get it?

"Germany - c.1938" - hahhahahahahaahhahahahahahaha

Godwins Law = You Lose!

Did I hear my name somewhere?

"Do you get it?"

Yes, yes I do. What do you think the Fed is exactly? Do you think they would deliberately crash the ENTIRE system? How would that be good for them eh?

Checkmate. Or I have to go to bed, it's very late.

way to address the issue fiedler...

German began issuing its own currency in the 30's. It's what brought them back to becoming an industrial powerhouse.

"way to address the issue fiedler..."

Nazi Germany is not a valid example because....do I really have to explain this? No.

"What do you think the Fed is exactly?"

A private central bank that issues our nations money at interest.

"Do you think they would deliberately crash the ENTIRE system?"

The crash is built-in. The only way to pay the interest on the old money is to borrow new money. If there are no more borrowers...crash.