Both the "church" and the Patriot Guard came to Virginia Tech after the shootings. So stupid.

Yeah, I'm watching this documentary, I saw that, yelling at veterans and cursing fallen soldiers...

That's just not right- black, white, hispanic, asiatic, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buhddist, Hindu, Athiest, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan-

I don't care who it is or what the war was- you do NOT attack those who fought for your freedom

And I've heard of the Patriot Guard before- GREAT oranization, great people.


I aslute you, Patriot Guard.

*salute you, sorry :)

Why the hell would the world see us as this? The Westboro Baptist Church is universally despised.

Watching this documentary, and they asked some Europeanss (coundn't place the accent... sounded Germanic/Scandanavian, or maybe northern England idk) and they were, they were associating America with that guy and his church...

Is anybody on this site FROM topeka, KS? That's where the church is... any first-hand knowledge?

Those Europeans were bigots, then. Should I tar all Europeans as bigots because of what those people thought?

I know what you're saying, generalizing on either side is wrong.

But the fact is, it DOES happen, it IS a natural practice, we do it so often; hopefully the large majority of mankind is able to generalze and then take a step back and say "No, maybe it's not so clear cut, maybe I'm wrong here."

But these things still happen, and it can lead to serious consequences-

Want to bet the 9/11 hijackers generalized Americans as something filthy, as infidels?
Want to bet the Third Reich and the KKK generalized Jews, gays, and blacks?
Want to bet post-Pearl Harbor Americans generalized Japanese-Americans?

It happens- and when it does, it can be tragic.

WBC came to our school this year. This is what we gave them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZfZiBRFM5w

That is superb!

That is AWESOME!!! I wish I could've seen their faces...

And speaking of the Patriot Guard...

Check this out- truly great...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb2q47gtJ-s

"I don't care who it is or what the war was- you do NOT attack those who fought for your freedom"

I wouldn't attack those who opposed the regime and refused to fight either. I don't care if they didn't "fight for freedom", i'm just saing you should have the right to choose not to kill without being threatened for being unpatriotic.

And yes, this is what the world see US as, Freedom of speech for ALL!
ridicule for some.

I'm European :) In America, EVERYTHING is possible. Including the WBC. But I don't see that crazy sect as anywhere near the average American (actually I don't really have an idea of what an average American would be).

I would never attack someone who objects to a war, but I would attack someone who was themselves attack another. The WBC attacks those people who perform their duty and desicrates their memory. They are not practicing free speech but what should be classed (and would have been in the past) as a form of hate speech. Used to be that freedom of speech did NOT including desecrating the flag or the memories of our countries fallen soldiers. There was a time when people who committed those acts would just "disappear" and the cops never bothered to look for them outside of generating a paper trail to say they "tried".

The freedom of speech does not extend to the invasion of private ceremonies and a funeral *is* a private ceremony. Maybe I should protest them by burning down their church. Where's Sic when you need him?

I like to think that my interests are a little more high-brow than the rantings of American religious zealots.

You guys "elected" Georgie-Porgie.

Twice.

Get over yourselves.

Everybody else has(except for the poor people that your nation continues to murder).

This is not representative or America or Christianity; I can say that right now. Someone should shut them up before they get too out of hand. Screw the First Amendment if you're insulting America!

Master_Warrior: Who determines what's an insult?

Putting up with people like this is the price we pay for freedom of speech.

That said, I kind of like Germany's approach with the BfV, which keeps an eye on extremist threats to constitutional democracy.

Quite honestly, I've never heard of the Westboro Baptist Church outside of the occasional message board denouncing them. I do not support anyone singling out any group for hatred. The message, that I've seen from them thus far, is not something that I'd be able to recognize as Christian any moreso than I would wee the KKK as a Christian group simply because they use crosses and identify themselves as such. Simply put though, there are extremists in every group. That does not mean the entire group has to be defined by these people. Not every Muslim is a suicide bomber. Not every Irishman is a drunk. Not every African American can dance, and not every white guy is a bigot.

There are groups that do and have killed Christians, and many others, in many nasty ways (Ju che, Stalinists, Nazis, etc.). That should not paint all Russians, Germans, or Koreans as bloodthirsty killers. We can go round and round about that.

I certainly despise the message that the WBC attempts to spread. I'd also say that they must not be very successful as I've never heard of anyone (aside from they themselves) who have anything particularly good to say about them.

I'm pretty sure the world doesn't see America for Westboro, but because you guys elected Dubya twice in a row.

Also, it's still free speech, and Draugnar, they actually aren't allowed to crash private ceremonies. They are not allowed to come within a ridiculous distance of the ceremony, like 500m or something.

"Used to be that freedom of speech did NOT including desecrating the flag or the memories of our countries fallen soldiers."

I would agree with people's right to object to the war, and even take to the streets and march on the capital. This doesn't need to involve burning a flag, or attacking soldiers.

They are obviusly a bunch of f*ck-nuts, and are using their outragous strategy to get media attension, which unfortunately the 'free' media offers them in abundance. (and remember if the media criticises them in American it is just considered, by some, as another sign of 'liberal bias' in the media (even though it is criticism of a more liberal interpretation of the freedom of speech right)

But the do, Chrisp... But they do. Or at least they try.

I must say the whole flag-burning thing is a mystery to me. Why Americans attach so much importance to it is beyond me. As George Carlin once said, "a flag is a symbol, and symbols are for the symbol-minded".

I remember opining this deeply unpopular view on a message board once (as ever, courting popularity). I received many badly-spelt expletive-ridden tirades as a result. I told the other participants that if one more person called me a **** I was going to take my American flag off my wall and piss on it.

Of course I wasn't, but unbelievably everyone shut up after that. I still wonder whether it was a coincidence or whether they actually shut up to protect the flag......

I'm not saying that we as Americans should call those not in favor of war unpatriotic-

I'M not in favor of our Iraq wr!

But I would NEVER pickett at the funeral for a dead soldier, and THAT's what these people are doing- can we all agree at least THAT's wrong?

Picketting and harassing at ANY funeral is just wrong...

And not ALL of us voted for Dubya... I didn't (OK, I was too young to vote, but I didn't support him.)

And I know Obama's not doing great so far, but I hope he at least improves our world stance (hey, he won a Noble Peace Prize for... well, I'm a Democrat and I don't know quite what, I guess for not being Bush... but at least it shows... maybe not as hated as Dubya, at least?)

Anyway, I just think the WBC is reprehensible, and there's free speech, and then there's the RESPONSIBILITY that comes with free speech- and a responsible, well-meaning person should NOT exercise their right to pickett and scream at a widower during her husband's funeral, especially if that husband was shot in a foregin land and she never got to say goodbye... really, harassing a person like that is just LOW.

And to whoever mentioned flag-burning... hmmm... part of me says hell yes for free speech, part says hell no, abusing the country that gives you that freedom...

Anyone want a seperate thread, I won't start one, I've got to go to class now ;)

I'm in favor of an amendment that would ban defacing of the flag, so these whackjobs don't hide behind the First Amendment when they burn a flag.

Some of you may be surprised to know that I am against the Iraq War. We should have just done a quick, three month shock-and-awe and then focused all of our resources on Afghanistan. I AM in favor of the War in Afghanistan.

The WBC must be really bored. I can't imagine anyone would be bothered enough to protest against pretty much anything that exists except themselves. To me, they're just IRL Trolls.

Care to explain why TMW?

by far the "funniest" interviews was when the lady from Fox 4 started going super saiyan on the daughter of the pastor. i laughed so hard when i first saw the "interview".....after i got over the initial shock of what they stand for.

and for kicks and giggles(if it hasnt already been posted)....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE