My ongoing observations reveal that many atheists are heavily biased against viewing religious people positively.

Sorry, no, that was supposed to read: study reveals religiously-raised children more likely to become murderous dictators.

Justified suspicion towards religious bullshit is justified.

Surely the value of the religion and it's affect on altruism or its followers being altruistic must be linked to the religions teaching and it's followers adherence to that teaching. If a region says be selfish, then why would it's followers look our for others?

If the teaching says something like this:

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others?


Surely the command to love your enemy is the greatest sign of altruism and therefore if followers who sign up to that belief system don't follow it, they are simply hypocrites.

But then again, we all are hypocrites aren't we.

We are.

Take two kids. Let one have a Sunday morning lie-in, and force the other to get up early, put on smart clothes, and sit on a wooden bench for an hour.

Take bets on which is going to be in a better mood.

Sounds like a painful memory.

Share it all with, Octavious, this is a friendly space.

*with us, even

Most people who follow organized religions (organized defined as those who regularly go to some other location for services most every week) are drilled into getting people in there to meet the "butts in the pews" quotas. All that does is foster a resentment for people who choose not to come. I've always said that individuals are intelligent, but the masses are idiots. When you take a group, most of which are too afraid (or too stupid) to speak out, all you get is a bunch of people who over the years have trained themselves to be haters. That is literally all it is. Ultimately, its got nothing to do with religion. Its all about making money. Tis why I no longer go. Its gotten away from the true purpose of religion.

Lol I love my fellow athiests. They always get so riled up when someone mentions god.
I for one couldn't care less about what people believe in, as long as it doesn't effect the educational system or me.

I think that children that are religiously raised are generally meaner because they are, generally speaking, raised more "traditionally"

Also, because they don't get quite enough toys for Christmas, with Mommy and Daddy giving over 10% of their income to feed the pastor and pay the churches bills.

"I've always said that individuals are intelligent, but the masses are idiots."

Meh, individuals aren't that bright either.

Well, wjessop, given the nature of slanders against atheists that predominate and the level of bigotry out there, you can hardly be surprised by people being interested in (yet another) study showing the opposite is true. When you're fighting against second class status is can make you a mite cranky.

That said, the higher average is probably made up of a big pool of religious kids who turned out just fine, and a group raised with a doctrinaire ideology of a domineering power-mad religious creed. This smaller group is the real problem and blows the curve.

Also, non-religiosity is correlated with a bunch of other factors such as wealth and education that play a role (although perhaps they controlled for this, I don't recall now)

"Well, wjessop, given the nature of slanders against atheists that predominate"

In the US, yes.

But me and jamie are in the UK, where secularists have predominance.

My comments were mostly in jest, I'm an agnostic atheist. Live and let live.

Study results seem to correspond with my daily reality. From what I can tell, religion is an excuse for some to be an ass. If you're not religious, that's one less chance for you to be an ass.
I know lots of nice religious people though. Everyone can find an excuse to be an ass, it's just a bit easier for religious people somehow.

Yeah in the US, I actually have to conceal my athiesm. Especially in the minority community, it gets pretty ridiculous. I've yet to meet someone in my immediate or extended family that doesn't believe in god.

A lot of religious people in the US are extremely condescending.

Yeah, that's the prevailing perception of the US here in Europe. After all, yours is the only modern large-powerful country where the elected leader is expected to thank God for your success and pray for God's blessing to help your country.


In the UK, it's often the reverse, quiet/shy Christians, who no longer feel they can be open about their Christianity because they'll be mocked or treated like bigots.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2990678/Christians-scared-admit-beliefs-fear-mocked-treated-like-bigots-say-equality-chiefs.html#ixzz3qp1pVJ4i

wjessop, Yoyoyozo: There's a certain truth in some of what you're saying. I know plenty of religious people, mostly Christians of various sorts. Those of them who are the nicest people tend to be the ones who talk about religion the least, and aren't preachy, letting their actions speak for the values of their community. Those who are the least nice tend to be the preachy, holier-than-thou types who behave as though going to church makes them a superior category of person.

Jamie, I hear what you're saying.

At the same time, it may be worth bearing in mind that you're presenting a judgemental, subjective view of what "nice" means. Nice for you clearly, in part, equates to people who don't talk about their religion, or who don't let their religion inform their views on life. To a lot of people that won't be very nice at all.

"Those who are the least nice tend to be the preachy, holier-than-thou types who behave as though going to church makes them a superior category of person. "

This is not really anything to do with religion though -- and more to do with the nature of human beings.

You present this "type of person" as though this behaviour type is not exhibited by people of all variants.

I've met plenty of atheists who have a superior attitude and a patronising view of those who don't agree.

Ahh, no, that's not what I mean. When I say those people who are not preachy are nice, what I mean is that those are the people who are also the kindest, the most generous, the most loving, the most supportive to friends and the most welcoming and friendly to strangers. That kind of "nice".

That's a really good point that U.S. atheists and European ones have a radically different context.

Mostly, i'm a little surprised by this study, since I wouldn't expect religion to have anything to do with it, and I very much doubt there is any causal link here but rather a pair of correlations to a third driving factor.

I think it's all about power. Here where athiesm is the far far minority, like 4 percent or something, all the religious people have the power of numbers and treat athiests very poorly.

I hear it's the opposite up there.

I think that as soon as a group of people gain legitimacy and power, they abuse to no end. The same thing with third wave feminist extremism, and extremists in the black lives matter organization.

@ Yoyoyozo: It's not exactly "the opposite". At the last census, in 2011, the majority of British adults still declared themselves to be religious in some form. However it's certainly different from the US perspective. If I recall the stats correctly, about 25% of UK adults identified as atheist or agnostic, compared with about 8% in the USA.

The real difference comes in the fact that most UK Christians are very supportive of secular politics; many of them regarding their religiosity as a private matter, not a public policy issue.

Being sure there's a god takes a certain level of confidence, I guess. If you have confidence, there's a chance your overconfident. So if you're a Christian, you're more likely to be confident and thus more likely to be overconfident.

Might that be an explanation?

On a different note, when I was quite a bit younger, I assumed the USA would be the breeding ground for atheism and was really surprised to find out it's so christian.
It never really made sense to me, with the gun culture and all. Odd combination, you'd think christians wouldn't use guns often.

"The real difference comes in the fact that most UK Christians are very supportive of secular politics; many of them regarding their religiosity as a private matter, not a public policy issue."

Yes.

Perfect.