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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 1132 of 1419
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tendmote (100 D(B))
26 Jan 14 UTC
Is Communism a form of religious belief?
Is Communism a form of religious belief, where instead of seeing God’s hand at work in all things, one sees the class struggle? When historical events are re-interpreted from a Communist viewpoint in a discussion with non-Communists, is the effect the same as when believers re-interpret historical events as divine intervention, in a discussion with atheists?
80 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
10 Jan 14 UTC
Assholes of the world unite!
Let's get another asshole game going, this time on the world map!

FP, WTA, 50 D, World Map, non-anon, must not be a thin-skinned fucktard.
90 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
22 Jan 14 UTC
On homeless-ness
http://www.nationofchange.org/utah-ending-homelessness-giving-people-homes-1390056183
52 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
24 Jan 14 UTC
Making a comeback
I have actually played any diplomacy in quiet a while.

So for my comeback special, i'd like to invite all interested parties!
gameID=134328 (wta, non-anon, full-press, classic)
14 replies
Open
tendmote (100 D(B))
25 Jan 14 UTC
BEEF GAME Needs one more!
I'm setting up the best Beef Game ever gameID=134413: tendmote vs. strauss, michiganman, lando calrissian, putin33, krellin, and one special guest
If you want to be the final player just let me know and get me or one of the other players to give you the password, "mutethemods"
18 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
18 Jan 14 UTC
Live Full Press
Details in a moment

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=133895
22 replies
Open
LSseckman (100 D)
24 Jan 14 UTC
Is this a record?
gameID=132855

Credit to Frenchie 29 being a good sport about prolonging the game to make this happen
15 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
25 Jan 14 UTC
Moderator Team Updates
Congratulations to goldfinger0303 for your promotion as the sites newest admin. Captainmeme will be stepping down as an admin due to time constraints, but will still be staying on the team as the vDiplomacy guest moderator to help our two sites stay in contact.
22 replies
Open
tendmote (100 D(B))
25 Jan 14 UTC
ADVERTISE YOUR LIVE GAMES HERE
Utilize this thread by posting new live games here and only here.
8 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
25 Jan 14 UTC
Wisdom or Rubbish? A Thread for Evaluating Famous One-Line Nuggets of Advice.
Post your favorite--or most hated--one-line maxim or saying or quote or *insert another synonym here.*

The next person to post will then say what they think of your posted saying, ie, Wisdom or Rubbish and why, and post their own little one-liner. Repeat until hell freezes over (or we get bored...or we devolve into a name-calling contest...whichever comes first...ha, as if it's a question which will come first...)
33 replies
Open
versanshie (283 D)
25 Jan 14 UTC
Rank falling dramatically
So, one day my rank said that I was in the top 62% and I was considered a member... but then randomly it fell to the top 92% and now I'm a casual player. I didn't draw, win, lose, survive, or resign any games in between this period. Why did this happen?
2 replies
Open
Deutschland97 (227 D)
20 Jan 14 UTC
ATTENTION ALL LIBERALS...
If you had to go conservative on any subject of debate, what would it be?
48 replies
Open
dD_ShockTrooper (1199 D)
24 Jan 14 UTC
Draws in PPSC
I was wondering to myself why the pot is split evenly in a PPSC draw. I thought it would make more sense, and make things more interesting, if the draw ended the game and dealt out the points each player is currently "worth" in the game.
9 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
16 Jan 14 UTC
SoW for gunboat players
Hamster...have you thought about opening a school for gunboat as it is almost entirely a different strategy?
73 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
24 Jan 14 UTC
LOL Funny!
At least for Star Wars geeks like me it is. Completely safe for work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyqfHvoUtkU
3 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
19 Jan 14 UTC
Surely not another religious retard
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-25793358

David Cameron causing floods by supporting legislation on gay marriage ..... what a nasty bastard he is !!
23 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
23 Jan 14 UTC
Woman Gang Raped in India
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25855325

she did a right to appeal ...... I guess not !!
19 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
23 Jan 14 UTC
Computer Issue
Anyone know how to fix msvcr80.dll missing errors? I tried re-installing the C++ 2005 Microsoft pack which has it to no avail.
13 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
22 Jan 14 UTC
Screw Football, This is more important
Warren Buffet is handing out $1 billion to whoever picks a perfect March Madness Bracket
27 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Dec 13 UTC
(+1)
NFL Pick 'em--PLAYOFF EDITION...12 TEAMS, 1 GOAL...IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!
The Chargers are the last team standing in that crazy race for the 6th seed in the AFC. Aaron Rodgers rained all over Da Bears' parade, leading the Pack to victory and setting up another classic Niners/Packers clash...only this time, at Lambeau Field. A typical Cowboys/Eagles clash ended in the typical Cowboy way...but it was Orton throwing the season-ending pick this time. The NFC: SEA, CAR, PHI, GB, SF, NO. The AFC: DEN, NE, CIN, IND, KC, SD. The Playoffs...PICK 'EM!
470 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
23 Jan 14 UTC
Racism? Biology and Culture.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/about-thinking/201312/four-simple-reasons-smart-people-shouldnt-believe-in-races
0 replies
Open
kaner406 (356 D)
22 Jan 14 UTC
Mars mystery:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-22/mars-mystery-white-rock-appears-on-rover-camera/5212640
18 replies
Open
tendmote (100 D(B))
20 Jan 14 UTC
Anyone here ever Master anything?
Anyone here ever Master anything? Top of your profession at something?
34 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
21 Jan 14 UTC
The 7 Deadly Biases
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prPXSRKYi6Y
funny story... the status quo has doomed use all!
48 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
23 Jan 14 UTC
English Defence League
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK-vRo9ux9o&feature=youtu.be

brilliant......
0 replies
Open
thehamster (3263 D)
30 Sep 13 UTC
(+8)
The Official Thread for The School of War: Fall 2013
gameID=126887
This is the official thread for professor commentary. This is also a place to ask the professors questions in response to their commentary.
Page 1 of 17
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thehamster (3263 D)
30 Sep 13 UTC
Our fall 2013 School of War class will be starting this week. Here's a little bit of procedural bits.
1. What is the School of War?
It's a way for newer players to be coached by a more experienced player. All 7 students gets a teaching assistant to work with them privately. They'll get help improving their tactics, strategy, and diplomacy. On top of that, everyone gets to follow the game by keeping up with this thread and the comments of professors.
2. What do professor's do?
Professors comment on the games after each turn of play. If you're a player, you should read the professor's commentary and talk it over with your TA. If you're a spectator to the game, there's a lot to learn from the way that the professors evaluate the game.
3. What can TA's do to be effective?
TA's can reach out to their students to establish a good means of communication. As JMo suggested, email or Google chat or skype might be a good way to keep in touch. Try to talk with your student once per phase.
4. What can students do to be effective?
Students need to let their TA know what their strengths and weaknesses are. (Example: I get stabbed a lot and I don't see it coming.) Read the professor's commentary. And realize that, no matter which country you play in this game, the point is not to learn how to be the best at playing that country. The point is to learn how to play a strong game of diplomacy, no matter which country you draw. That's important.
5. Have there been SoW games in the past?
Yes. If you get a chance, read some of the professor's commentary threads from past games.
threadID=1010911
threadID=672851
threadID=738795
threadID=739795
threadID=884531
threadID=940795
threadID=501033
threadID=474841
6. Who are our professors?
We have 3 professors this year. We'll introduce ourselves and provide commentary every turn or, at least, every year. There's myself, JMo, and 2WL.
7. How can I get involved in the SoW in the future?
Contact Triumvr
userID=25936
We may need replacement players at some point. Also, it looks like there's interest in an intermediate level SoW game, so if you're interested in becoming a student, TA, or a professor, reach out to Triumvr.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
30 Sep 13 UTC
Ideally, students should refrain from asking questions or posting in this thread, other than to bump the thread. Any discussion on moves or commentary should be directed to your TA. Other site members and TAs are encouraged to pose questions to the professors for general discussion.

I will be posting seasonal commentary as I see fit, likely skipping retreats or builds unless there is a good reason to add my thoughts on an upcoming decision. My commentary tends to highlight good moves and bad moves. Often I tend to pick on individual players for moves I may not particularly like. Don't take it personally! Like thehamster said, this is for learning purposes. Also, since I don't have access to chat or messages beyond global, I won't know what's being discussed between players. Sometimes I may totally misread a situation, as unlikely as that sounds. If you catch me off guard, and it makes you look like a diplomatic genius, good for you! I'll warn you though, as an experienced gunboat player, I'm fairly good at reading a board and if I see something I'm not liking, I'll try to highlight it and call you out - again, as a learning tool. People learn best by doing, and that's the whole point of the SOW.

For players - we'd like to see a thorough EOG (End of Game) writeup once this game is all said and done, so I encourage you to utilize the commentary tab on the game board to keep track of your thoughts and questions during the game. EOG threads generate great discussion and its a particularly good learning tool to go back over your game and see where you could have done something better or watch the outcome of a decision unfold.

For TAs or other non-SOW players - please feel free to pose discussion questions! Last game we had some great input from outside players, and it always helps to get some different perspectives on a game, especially from some of the better players on the site.

Have fun and good luck! The profs will post some thoughts on opening moves over the next few days.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
30 Sep 13 UTC
As a professor I tend to focus on specific things I see during a turn that I feel are important in nearly every game you will end up playing. The point of the SoW is to help people become better players. The theory behind being a good player is easy and I'll tell you right now why good players are good. They can look at the board and understand why the previous moves were made, what the best moves for each country are this turn, and then apply that information to their diplomacy strategy.

Learn to understand the board, I cannot stress this enough. Talk to your TA every single turn and ask them about any move you don't understand. Every turn I look at the board like a gunboat game and figure out which moves I would make as every single player. Pick a few gunboat games and practice your guessing while this game is going on. You'll find your own games turn out much better once you start consistently guessing moves correctly.

The second aspect of becoming a good player is the press. Getting people to do what you want. Learning when you need to compromise and when you need to stab. That's the other part of the game you should be working with your TA on, send them press snippets every single year. Ask them if someone's press seems trustworthy or not, and WHY. Ask them how to phrase your response to get what you want from a neighbor.

The last piece of advice I'll give before the game starts is the easiest one to do. Talk to everyone in the game. If you are England you should be talking to Turkey from the opening year. This is a game of diplomacy, figure out who the best diplomat is, figure out who the sly talker is, find out who's going to be a pushover and who is going to cause problems. Manipulate the game to your advantage. You cannot do that if you aren't talking to everyone. If you're surprised by an alliance that appears on the other side of the board then you're failing at your diplomacy.

Also, if any students or TA's have questions please ask them now before the game starts, because once it does you should only post in this thread to bump it. Students, if you have a question ask your TA. TA's, if you don't' know an answer or if a professors commentary doesn't make sense to you go ahead and pm that professor. We'll answer you as long as we feel our answer won't affect the moves of the game. And please TA's remember that while you're there to help your student you aren't going to help them if you decide all their moves for them. Help them analyze the board, the press and give them feedback on questions, but avoid just sending them orders each turn.
RAZ000 (272 D(G))
01 Oct 13 UTC
What are we waiting for? I'm unclear why Press is still locked. Is this just so the Students can contact their respective TAs? Just curious...
Triumvir (1193 D)
01 Oct 13 UTC
Giving students a chance to request a specific country they want to play / to get help with. See the original SoW thread.
RAZ000 (272 D(G))
02 Oct 13 UTC
Right. When this thread started I stopped reading the other one. I'll read both from now on...
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
03 Oct 13 UTC
bump
thehamster (3263 D)
04 Oct 13 UTC
Spring 1901
Triumphantly, everybody submitted orders, so we’re off to a good start. The game is likely to last until November or December with two-day phases, so we’re going to be together for awhile. When the game stops being fun, we can stop, but I hope it stays fun. This is exciting; it’s like the first day of school. I’ll rank the moves from best to worst every phase. 1901 is an awkward year, so my decision of whose moves are best and whose are worst is quite arbitrary. Everybody submitted really strong orders for Spring ’01, which is unusual for a School of War class (usually there’s an NMR or at least a really dud opening in the mix). Also, it’s worth noting that I can only see what you see: the board. I can’t see the messages or negotiations, but I can make some educated guesses as to what’s going on behind the scenes.
1. France. Hooray! You’re in the lead. Most people love drawing France, and our student took advantage of the fortuitous country assignment. France chose the Belgian Gambit opening, and it worked great. His move to Burgundy succeeded, suggesting that he caught the German by surprise. He isn’t being threatened by England in the Channel or Italy in Piedmont. Even if the move to Burgundy failed, he would have had the ability to slide into Spain with the Marseilles army and into Portugal with the fleet. As it stands, things are even better. He controls Belgium, and two of his three units are facing the action. It’s common for French players to be so focused on Iberia that they aim two units west, which is away from the action. Go France!
2. Russia. You’re in a good way also. Russia went with the Ukraine opening, and it looks great. My favorite part is that Warsaw has been ordered to keep still and wait until autumn to move. This leaves lots of potential. The Black Sea bounce appears to be pre-arranged with Turkey. Anyway, the reason I’m such a fan of the Warsaw hold is that Russians tend to freak out the board. They start with an extra center, and the centers themselves look so big and scary (Moscow is a monster!). I think there’s something confident and reassuring to the rest of the board to see Warsaw kept still. Otherwise, it would appear that Russia is trying to do all sorts of terrible things. Hopefully this is the setup for a strong fall.
3. Austria. The luck might not last long, but you’re off to a nice start. Somehow or another, Russia was persuaded to avoid Galicia with his Warsaw unit. Austria thwarted Italy’s lethargic attack. And he set yourself up to potentially grab onto Greece in the fall. Austria opened with a Balkan Gambit with an Italian defense. Fortunately, the defense held up, as Austria outguessed the Italian. He’s in a strong position to negotiate terms of alliance with any of his fellow eastern powers. I’m often happy if, when I play Austria, I’m still alive by fall 1902. Hopefully this Austrian student will last much longer than that.
4. England. I’m partial to the corner powers, England and Turkey, because they’re sneaky and well-defended and awfully dangerous. Here, England chose the Northern Opening. It’s critical for England to be the first to the North Sea and to stay there. That being the case, this opening or the Channel/NTH opening are great for England. Here, there’s a little room to criticize the English player for ordering the army to Yorkshire rather than Edinburgh, since Edinburgh opens up the possibility of a Norwegian Sea convoy as well, but, by and large, England is in good shape. Russia isn’t sending much offense his way, and Germany’s in a box.
5. Turkey. Like I mentioned in England’s write up, the corner powers are sneaky and powerful, so don’t be discouraged that I rated you fifth. Turkish openings are easily the most boring, since there’s only about two of them (I’m exaggerating). Similar in concept to Austria’s opening, Turkey ordered a Balkan opening. The focus is on picking up the Balkan neutrals while hedging one’s bets on a potentially sketchy Russia. My guess is that the Black Sea bounce was mutually agreed upon, but I could be wrong. As it turns out, Turkey is in good shape to coordinate with any of his fellow eastern powers in the moves to come. There’s rarely an expectation for Turkey to get a second build in 1901, so I hope things work out and the Turkish player makes the most of his adequate position.
6. Germany. Your rating as sixth is by no means a reflection on your opening but on the openings of your neighbors. And that illustrates a point: a lot of times we read a diplomacy article espousing the benefits of a certain opening. And that could lead us to play that opening the next time we play, no matter what the circumstance. In this case, Germany has a nice opening. It’s the Blitzkrieg Opening, and it’s a pretty standard way for Germany to start off. Germany was caught off-guard by France’s move to Burgundy. It’s subtle, but England’s army in Yorkshire is pointing more toward Germany than if his army was in Edinburgh. I know, the observations are small, but my guess is that Germany is a little bit out of the loop when it comes to western negotiations. Fortunately, there’s plenty of time to turn things around and forge a nice alliance.
7. Italy. While you’re the obvious choice for last, things are just starting, so you’re not too far behind first. Italy chose the Key Lepanto. This opening is designed to attack Turkey by setting up for a convoy to Tunis from Apulia and a supported movement from Trieste into Serbia. As you can see, Austria didn’t allow Italy into Trieste, ruining the whole concept. What we have instead is a lazy, failed attack on Austria with two other pieces moving somewhere else. Fortunately for Italy, it is Spring 1901, so there’s plenty of room to turn things around. Unfortunately, my guess is that Austria talked you into playing a Key Lepanto opening, only to bounce you in Trieste, and leaving you with a lousy position. So it goes.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
04 Oct 13 UTC
If we could keep this thread bumped, I'd appreciate it. I didn't notice the game started because of all the bullshit argument threads on the front page. Comments soon :)
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
04 Oct 13 UTC
Spring 1901

To echo hamster, I am pleasantly surprised at the quality of orders for this turn. I don't know if that's due to overt TA influence or a high caliber of player, but this is shaping up to be a balanced, quality game.

Spring 1901 is too soon to start talking about who's in the lead (sorry hamster :) ) but I can touch on some of the long term effects of some of these opening moves.

France A Par - Pic, A Mar - Bur: A bold opening move that sends a strong signal to Germany. Burgundy is usually a point of contention for France and Germany, given its proximity to Munich, two French home centers, as well as Belgium, a key 1901 center. Being able to take it unopposed is indicative of good diplomacy - either a mutually beneficial agreement regarding Belgium has been reached, or France has pulled a fast one on Germany. France has instantly seized the upper hand in the traditional quagmire that is the French/German borderlands. While you're still far from guaranteed Belgium, putting yourself in a position to either support Pic - Bel or move Bur - Mun gives you a big advantage in the upcoming turn.

Italy A Ven - Tri: A bold opening gambit. In most cases, Italy will opt for either the Obriani (northern) opening or sneak into Tri in the fall. Either way, it severely compromises Austrian opening plans and hamstrings his moves for the fall. Taking Tri in the spring will give the Austrian player fits. Unfortunately, there looks to be some mutual distrust - Vie - Tri is usually an indicator that Austria doesn't fully trust Italy. If that's the case, good play. Otherwise, its a bit of a wasted move if Italy has held Ven. Its an even more wasted move if Russia takes Gal. A successful Tri grab gives Italy two builds with very little Austrian recourse. A bounce with no Russian pressure in Galicia is a waste.

England A Liv - Yor: According to Vaftstats (www.draugnar.com/vaftstats) this is far and away the most popular English opening. Personally, I am a fan of Yor - Edi, since it gives you more options with the NTH fleet, but this opening is stock for a reason. The army could go any number of places - Bel, Hol, Den, Nor. My biggest issue with this opening is the lack of options for NWG. I've always thought that NWG - BAR is a bit of a dead end, but it may be worth it to potentially take StP. A bounce of France or Germany is always an option as well. As you can see, that army has some good options to provide you with some leverage. Use it wisely - its too often that England wastes the army by walking into a disband, which really limits the ability for England to gain an important foothold on the mainland.

Russia A War h: As I wrote about extensively in the last SOW, I'm a proponent of always having a purpose for your moves, or lack thereof. The Warsaw hold intrigues me though. Not taking Galicia has its obvious diplomatic advantages, but what then do you do with the fourth Russian unit? Russia is the only power to start with four units, and that size is Russia's strong suit in the early game, but it can also be its downfall, especially in games with beginners who see the early leader as the clear threat. Lets break it down.

Being the largest power in 1901 comes with some drawbacks, most notably coming into conflict with potentially three other powers almost immediately (I'll ignore Turkey for now). Even with great pregame diplomacy, its reasonably certain that you will end up fighting one of England, Germany, or Austria. Its not just possible to avoid conflict as the largest power. Lets look at some alternate uses for that army in War:

A War - Gal - the most popular use of War. I understand that leaving Gal open puts you on good terms with Austria. But why? What do you gain from that relationship versus what Austria gains by not having an enemy touching two home centers? An Italian move to Tri combined with War - Gal is much more effective and puts you in a very strong position to take an Austrian home center in 1901 or 1902. It also provides less Austrian resistance against Turkey, which makes it easier for your (presumed) ally to take Greece, and the Juggernaut is on.

A War - Ukr - second most popular War opening. This, of course, leaves Mos open to other moves, usually Mos - StP. Its a fairly safe assumption in Diplomacy that England will take Nor in 1901. That's about as certain as Turkey in Bul. Why not put up some opposition to a potential English invasion? In the long run, StP is not a defensible center against an English attack. Many a successful Russian game has started with losing StP. But why risk it? Mos - StP means England has to waste a second unit on support to Nor. In the meantime, you can sneak into Fin and build in StP. With German support, you can easily throw England back onto their island and take Nor for yourself.

A War - Sil - but wait, there's more! While anything goes in FP, the German bounce in Sweden is a fairly typical anti-Russia tactic. Why not leverage that situation by putting pressure on two German home centers? A France/Russia relationship is one of the least utilized but most effective early game alliances. Given France's position, taking Mun or helping France into Mun isn't out of the question.

My point here is that a War hold is a bit of a wasted move when you examine the alternatives. Yes, it may be good in the short term for your relationship with Austria, but if you end up with England breathing down your neck or no build in Swe, you may regret not moving that unit.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
04 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
So this turn I will leave my commentary short because there really isn't much more to be said then what thehamster and 2WL said. There are two areas where our opinions differ though.

First off, the Russian hold in Warsaw. For me I don't have enough information yet to determine whether or not I like the hold. There's a few different moves I could see Russia making next turn, one more likely then the others, and I will post after that turn why/if I liked the hold. As for now though it could either have been an excellent diplomatic move, or a waste of a unit.

Italy and Austria, I'd bet a significant amount of my points that your bounce was arranged. The move Apu instead of Venice rules out almost any possibility of a targeted attempt to take Trieste. Now the other professors might be right, that this is actually a failed Key Lepanto, but this is a beginner teaching game. I can't see any new player being experienced enough to consider that set of moves. The key is very rarely seen outside of the highest class games. Now the question is, was the bounce a good move, assuming it *was* prearranged. My answer is partially. The benefit is that it builds trust between Austria and Italy, as well as disguising any future alliance. The downside is obviously that it wastes two units and puts Austria in a dangerous situation if Russia makes the move to Galicia. Since Galicia remains completely neutral it seems to have been a fairly successful move.

This turn has some key negotiations happening, so I'll point out the key ones that every player on the board should be interested in since these will define the opening alliances, and therefore the rest of the game.

Belgium - France has the best claim, but England and Germany can jointly hold him to one build, which is why I personally prefer French openings that take both Spain and Por. This center will reveal which of the western powers is going to have a tough few opening years.

Sweden - Germany has so much negotiating power right here, and I've found players often underestimate the influence they wield over the entire board with this choice. Germany can allow Russia into Sweden to make himself an ally in the north, and potentially an ally against England. The other option is to deny Russia Sweden which weakens him. This seems simple but a German player needs to study the openings in the east to know which move benefits them the most. If Russia is being ganged up on by Turkey and Austria then giving him the extra center delays the elimination of a power in the east (this is a huge benefit to western powers and increases the solo potential of a western power). If Russia appears to be strongly allied with Austria or Turkey and in a position to expand rapidly then Germany should consider blocking Russia from Sweden to ensure he can't quickly expand in the south.

Norway - Does England take Norway with an army or a fleet? The answer to this question effectively tells you how England plans to expand for the beginning of the game.

Rumania and the Black Sea - Russia can take Rumania with support but at the possible expense of the Black Sea. Austria and Turkey can block Russia with support and still allow Turkey to take the Black Sea, Austria or Turkey can support Russia into Rum. There's so many combinations of moves that can occur here, and each one will means something different for every eastern power.

Greece, while it's not common Turkey and Italy can block Austria from Greece. The reason this is unlikely in the current situation is that it costs Italy a build.

Those centers are key though, after the next set of moves go through I will know the majority, if not all, of the alliances in the game just through the moves affecting those 5 centers. Next turn I'll explain more based on the moves and I'll explain the west vs. east zones and why every player should be trying to influence each zone.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
04 Oct 13 UTC
@thehamster and 2ndWhiteLine, do either of you have a link to a glossary with terms like Lepanto? I don't and I want to avoid using them if we don't explain them since I don't expect newer players to have ever heard them before.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
04 Oct 13 UTC
Just about anything you need is on the Diplomacy Archive, the opening strategies page in particular:

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy.htm

And Edi Bersan's page on the Lepanto:

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy/articles/lepanto.htm

Also, now that I think of it, it may be a good idea to provide each future SOW student with the general opening strategy article for each power, especially for players who haven't played a specific power before.
thehamster (3263 D)
04 Oct 13 UTC
Okay, so to sum up the commentary for Spring 01...

1. Thanks to 2WL for introducing me to the Vaftstats website. I never knew this existed, and now I'll be wasting hours searching potential openings.

2. As JMo mentioned, theres lots of potential reading on Diplomacy openings. The comments on opening strategy by Dunecat, Centurian, and Jacob in previous SoW threadID=474841 should be helpful. It's awfully easy to waste hours reading diplomacy theory, so be warned.

3. Fortunately, 2WL disagreed with my most passionate opinions. I like the Warsaw hold a lot, 2WL saw a missed opportunity. I came down hard on Italy's opening (thinking he fell into a trap set by Austria), 2WL was rather more supportive of the Trieste bounce. So, while 2WL and I settle things over a fierce thumb-wrestling match, the students can take our analysis for what its worth and lock in orders for fall '01.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
04 Oct 13 UTC
Bump
mendax (321 D)
05 Oct 13 UTC
Of course as the Italian TA I'm was always going to dislike Hamster's reading on an almost emotional level, but even so it's interesting to hear what all you guys have to say.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
05 Oct 13 UTC
There's always different perspectives, which is why having multiple professors is nice.

I didn't really mean to come across as supportive of the Tri bounce, at least from Italy's perspective. If it really wasn't arranged, it could have been done better. If it was bounced, and the hold in Warsaw was arranged by Austria, then Austria needs to realize that he can't have it both ways - an alliance by Austria with Russia and Italy is impossible to maintain. If the bounce was legitimate, it still turned out better for Austria, but Italy could have done it better by letting Russia in on the plan to combine it with A War - Gal. I think it boils down to one of three conclusions:

1. Italy could have played it better.

-or-

2. Austria played it really well.

-and-

3. Everyone hates Turkey.

Bottom line though is that its still 1901 and plenty of time for this game to develop. A botched Italian attack can easily be overlooked, especially when Austria can easily prevent any further attempt in the fall. Neither side is any worse off and if anyone needs to reevaluate this turn, its Russia :)
thehamster (3263 D)
05 Oct 13 UTC
Mendax, I didn't know you were working with Italy! (I don't check the players or TA's, just the board). For the record, Mendax and I are playing our first game together at the moment, and he's just great.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
05 Oct 13 UTC
I think he was more talking about my commentary being supportive of it, that or everyone is just ignoring my post =(.

What I do want to point out though is that Spring 01 moves are only as good or as bad as the end of the year. Your goal in 01 is to make at least 1 ally, no enemies, 2 centers if you can, 3 in rare cases. If your moves through the year accomplish those then they were decent moves. What we're doing though is pointing out what moves could have better alternatives in the average game you're going to play. As a whole, professors in SoW's come off as critical because we really want to emphasize what people are doing wrong, but we'll always tell you how to fix it. Nothing we post is meant to be mean, only to help everyone in the game/following it become better players.
dyager_nh (619 D)
05 Oct 13 UTC
I think Italy's player hung himself this morning over the commentary. Its a sad story and a lesson for all of us.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
05 Oct 13 UTC
I said it earlier in my pregame introduction, but I'll emphasize again that the professors do not have access to anything beyond global chat. There may be some tremendous ruse being executed, but we have no idea. We have to call it like we see it. That being said, there isn't much that the three professors haven't seen before.
peterwiggin (15158 D)
05 Oct 13 UTC
bump
Triumvir (1193 D)
06 Oct 13 UTC
Official Bump: Fall 1901 moves have been processed.
thehamster (3263 D)
06 Oct 13 UTC
Fall 1901

Now is when the board starts to take shape. Some alliances are starting to coalesce, and this is where diplomacy gets interesting. It’s a struggle for everybody. Those who are doing well have to convince the board that they’re friendly and everybody shouldn’t freak out and attack them. Those who are doing poorly need to scramble, look for a buddy, and try to make their case. Most alliances aren’t set in stone, so with some creative wordsmithing, it may be possible to pry one ally from another and turn the direction of the game. Don’t be desperate; make a solid case as to why it’s better to work with you than to work with somebody else. (E.g. Your ally is bigger than you and he might stab you. It’s better to work with me, since I’m too small to threaten you, and I’m happy to help you take down your ally.) It’s only 1901, so there’s lots of game left. That being the case, feel free to finalize your orders early in the build and retreat phases to keep the game moving. Take your time in the Spring/Fall movement phases though. It’s important to get that right. This early in the game, the process of ranking countries is somewhat arbitrary, but, essentially, positions 1-3 should be smiling, 4-5 are not in bad shape, and 6-7 are in big trouble.

1. England. By a hairsbreadth, you’re in the lead. Right now, his alliance with France is in lockstep. Germany had no chance to defend Belgium, but he could have at least bounced England in Holland. Instead, he let an English army right in. As a result of his blunder, England’s up two builds, which I expect will be F Edi and A Lon. I’ll rank England just a notch ahead of France because, assuming the alliance holds up for a few years, his path will be through the lowest ranked nations, while France will have to push himself through some tougher opposition. Again, assuming the alliance holds up, I expect him to be poised to stay a center or two ahead of France from ’03 onward.

2. France. Checking on your profile, he’s been a member of this site for a long time and have played over 100 games. However, he’s joined games with awfully tough competition and has a lot of defeats. With that kind of a record, he should be smiling after his 1901 season in this game. France’s confident opening has worked out great. He’ll be all set to pick up Portugal when he gets around to it. His fleet in the South Coast of Spain can slide back to pick up Portugal, guard the Med waters, or swing up north behind England. It’s just in a great spot. He’s got two builds coming; and I have a feeling that, rather than the usual F Bre A Par, he’ll be opportunistic and build the fleet in Mar. Just a guess.

3. Austria. You’re still solidly in third, and your TA assures me that you are a great student. You listen to the concepts passed on by your TA and formulate your own strategy. That’s the mark of a great Diplomacy player. Italy is again trying a bizarre movement into Venice, which Austria’s casually bounced. Russia is still not threatening at all. It doesn’t look like he’s made anybody mad yet, so the opportunity for alliances is wide open. Two builds for Austria: F Tri A Buda.

4. Turkey. This is tough. I’m not sure where to put you, so I’m putting you squarely in the middle. If Turkey had a solid alliance lined up with either Austria or Italy, then I can understand shutting Russia out of Rumania. But if he doesn’t, then he’s living on borrowed time. His single build in Smyrna is quite likely to be a fleet, but, unfortunately, his fleets aren’t adjacent so they won’t be able to coordinate moves. Moving Con to Smy in the fall would have set up for a Con fleet build and a stronger position. Turkey is naturally well defended, so if he can manage to, one way or another, get to 5 SC’s, he’ll be tough to kill.

5. Italy. It may be that Turkey is without friends, and it may be that you are too. Italy has one build coming, which may be F Nap. Right now, he’s caught in a tough spot. Even if his lazy movement into Trieste was planned with Austria, and Austria is his ally, why would the Italian ask his ally to tie up one of his pieces when it could be productively used? Fortunately, he’s got plenty of potential to strike an alliance and find a place to expand.

6. Russia. In the Spring, I couldn’t have been more pleased with your Warsaw hold. It signaled to the board that Russia was cool and laid back and not a threat. Apparently that line of diplomatic reasoning didn’t hold up. None of Russia’s moves succeeded. Did he get the hint that Germany was going to bounce him in Sweden? Then why not move to the Baltic and threaten three of his centers? The standard fall movement for Russia should typically be F Sev supports Ukr to Rum, or A Ukr supports Sev to Rum. If he knew that Turkey was going to keep hassling him, he should have ordered the latter and built another boat in Sev. It’s just bad news all around. Fortunately, Austria seems to be off his back, and Germany, although unwelcoming, is not in any position to mount a serious attack. No builds for Russia this year.

7. Germany. I was hoping that you would overcome your bad start in the spring and come off with a good fall. It’s not uncommon for Germany to get 3 builds in ’01, and 2 is the standard. 1 is bad, and I expect him to stick an army in Kiel. France and England obviously have decided to do him in, and of his 3 moves this fall, 2 were really bad, and the other wasn’t great. Ruhr should not have moved to Belgium. France had the manpower to support himself in, so Germany should have at least gotten some use out of his Ruhr army and bounced Holland. Covering the unguarded Munich was adequate, but he could have guessed France as being far more likely to support himself into Belgium than to attempt to nab Munich and leave his Belgium attack unsupported. A better move would have been to use Ruhr to support Kiel into Holland, thereby bringing him up to 5 centers and keeping the SC (supply center) counts of England and France (two allies) uneven. Allies like to be evenly matched, so if one has more than the other, the dynamic gets disrupted. Far and away the worst move he could have possibly done this turn was to bounce Russia in Sweden. This does not mean that Germans should never bounce Russians in Sweden, but he should not have here. I’ve soloed with Germany only twice on this site. One time I bounced Russia in Sweden, the other time I didn’t. When I bounced Russia, I was allied with France, who helped kill England for me, so I didn’t need any help from Russia. When I didn’t bounce Russia, France was clumsily attacking me and certainly not helping me dismantle the Brit, so I allowed Russia to take Sweden. He then took Norway also and kept England’s growth contained until I invaded the island and killed him off. In our SoW game, Germany is being attacked by England and France, so allowing Russia to take hold of Scandinavia and put pressure on England is the very very best choice. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The German player has failed to realize this.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
06 Oct 13 UTC
I'll get a post in tomorrow, but for the most part I agree with thehamster's analysis.
Enoch (185 D)
06 Oct 13 UTC
Bump
uclabb (589 D)
06 Oct 13 UTC
Question- What goes into the French decision to take Spain instead of Portugal this turn? Was it the right decision?
Triumvir (1193 D)
06 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
Not being connected in any way to the French player in this game, the biggest consideration (in my mind) for taking SPA instead of POR is how close the French player wants his unit to the Mediterranean.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
06 Oct 13 UTC
Fall 1901

Very interesting turn. Hamster had a good writeup already so I'll try not to be too redundant, but since there's so much to talk about this turn, I'll add my two cents.

The name of the game is support, folks. If you're not supporting your moves, you might as well just hold. I'm looking at you, Russia and Germany. That Warsaw hold is looming large right now. If you were sitting in Gal this turn, Rum is yours. Instead, you've bounced in both your attempted builds and you're in a very precarious spot between a two build England and an aggressive Turkey. If England chooses to focus on Germany next year, you may still have a chance, but with Austria getting two builds as well, your chances of growing in this game are slim, especially without Turkish help. You might be able to salvage a build this year if you play your moves right, so I'm eager to see how you play the upcoming year.

Turkey, as far as you're concerned, I'm guessing you either misread the Trieste situation or were gunning for Russia all along. A Juggernaut (R/T alliance) is a very powerful alliance, particularly in the early game, and its your best defense against an Austria/Italy alliance. At this point, though, your poor relationship with Russia is probably going to end up with you getting boxed in early on and fighting for survival. Luckily for you, Turkey is very difficult to attack if you stay in your corner. With a board of beginners, you're not out of luck yet, and if you can salvage your relationship with Russia, things might just turn around for you.

Germany...not sure what else I can add to hamster's analysis. I can't find anything positive to say, except that you're learning more from this game than anyone else so far, which is something anyway. Like I said earlier, the name of the game is support. Looking at the board last turn, it was pretty clear what France was going to do. He could take the guaranteed build in Bel or move to Bel and Mun, neither guaranteed. You, on the other hand, had a guaranteed build in Hol if you supported with Ruhr. All things considered, you could be sitting at five centers, England at four, and France at five. Whole different game.

Austria and Italy...its pretty clear that the Tri bounce was always arranged, so as a deterrent to attack, its a good move. I'll say the same thing I told Russia last turn, though - wasted movement for both of you. I completely understand the need to ensure the safety of Tri, which is fine. However, take a look at the board. How much better would things be looking for you (Austria) if you had an army sitting in Gal this turn? Italy, how much better would you be feeling if you had an army in Pied right now? Its always a question of what to do with the army in Ven as Italy. Even if you hold, its a potential threat to Austria. So what do you do? Personally, I think a move to Piedmont in the spring of 1901 is solid and accomplishes two things. First, it frees up Austria to not worry about Tri. Second, it gives France second thought about leaving Mar open. Why let France walk into Bel with no threats at all to his centers? Being that he has a fleet positioned to enter the Med this turn, with no opposition to his (presumed) fleet build in Mar, its difficult for me to say that you both could have played it better this year.

France...great turn. England is a solid ally and Germany is crippled. You've got two builds coming this year and Por sitting as a backup build. You've also got the jump on Italy in the Med. Its no wonder why you're clearly the leader after 1901. Now you're faced with a mini dilemma. What do you build? The F Mar is a no brainer, but what of the second build? Do you build another army and keep the pressure on Germany? Do you think that Germany will wait and you can afford to build a third fleet? Portugal is awfully tempting this year with another fleet in Brest, but you could make some great progress with England's help into German territory. Not a bad decision to have.

England...also an excellent turn. Getting Hol or Bel is always a bonus for England, and its even more of a bonus if you can hold onto your new European centers. The only drawback to your successful 1901 is that the cat is out of the bag and you're probably looking at a unified resistance from Germany and Russia. The good news, though, is that that resistance will be minimal, at best. Sweden is probably yours this year and with the army in Holland, with French support, you two should make some good progress into German territory.
duckofspades (170 D)
07 Oct 13 UTC
Bump

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redhouse1938 (429 D)
22 Jan 14 UTC
Syria convention in Montreux
I wonder if there is sufficient unity between outside powers to be able to influence the Syrian actors. This and more: discuss.
1 reply
Open
krellin (80 DX)
21 Jan 14 UTC
Jobs for Dance Monkeys...
Hey all you fine, well-meaning Libtard Dance Monkeys and welfare bums (and you know who you are...). Have we got a deal for YOU! J-O-B-S...that's right, employment fully suited to your intellectual capacities. Step right up...

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/24506147/kentucky-bill-would-let-service-monkeys-help-paralyzed-people#axzz2r3wv8WwA
15 replies
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krellin (80 DX)
21 Jan 14 UTC
"I love Bill clinton"
http://news.investors.com/Politics-Andrew-Malcolm/012014-686774-barbara-bush-bill-clinton-cspan.htm?ven=rss

Awesome -- there's a woman of integrity. I totally agree with her - have always thought Clinton would be an awesome guy to hang with...even if his politics sucked.
9 replies
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tmchandler5 (100 D)
21 Jan 14 UTC
Need a few more, new Classic Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=134130
0 replies
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