Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[teacon7]

page 31:
@balki
That's not smarmy, that's "not loading accusations into your questions." And anyway, since when does smarmy = scummy?

@fox
I wasn't trying to impute anything to you good/bad/otherwise. I was moving to a non-Chippe conversation.


@et -
Thank you! Good insight about Neph. What do you mean by saying that you think bozo would react you?

page 32:

%%vote TrPrado
I'll probably end up changing!

Okay so flav flav flav. that's now how this works. why even vote at all right now if you're not going to talk at prado, and you're going to change the vote anyway?

Why are you and squigs both doing gut-reaction "pings" ?

Because one dude Squig knows did that and it was pretty accurate, its a good place to start on Day 1 imo

Okay but why you? Have you met the dude squigs knows?

Tell us what specific posts lead you to your dual conclusions that (a) Balki is smart/experienced and (b) Balki is scum because he is asking questions and commenting without providing anything.

fwiw, he did the same thing to me as town last game.

Can someone give me a Cliffs Notes summary of "what happened last game" that is important for this game? Something, something, Moscow lurked and was scum...teacon did what? Anything else pertinent? I take it that town lost?

I talked a lot. ND played lightning rod and got a lot of attention by acting like a clown to generate reactions. I talked more and xorx and I ended up in a massive game-killing TvT fight. Flav(also, somehow, town) subbed in sometimes after d1 and scumread me right out of the gate, parroting xorx' arguments and generally ignoring my posts. Things like flav: "oh teacon isn't doing X" ::teacon posts quote of him doing exactly X four pages ago:: "flav: teacon isn't doing X!!1" Town ended up losing the game in lylo to emc/moscow, because we voted for scummier than scum flav.



page 34


this doesn't feel like scum damo that I knew last game.

@damo - moscow lurks like this as town too. Then as scum last game. I looked at old games on the bot ot figure that out. After last game, it's NAI because he lurked to victory so well.

Also of note from last game: at the very end during lylo, we almost solved it, but we voted Flavius because he became super defensive and accusatory. Not giving Flavius a free pass, but he is rather new to Forum Mafia.

Yes. See my comment pages ago to xorx about flav's play.


page 35

I have a gut feeling Fox is scum. Last game it worked with Damo.

i have this feeling too. Not enough to go on yet.


page 36

It seems teacon and Xorxes have learnt a lesson.

also this game is already too massive for me to keep up. I do have a full time job. :/

Hello this is my first post and we already have some 30ish pages XD

yeah he's town

I suppose I'll abstain from the vote

no wait he's scum.

@cru Really? Skim the thread and let us know what you think. You have a responsibility here. Are you in support of lynching lurkers d1?



page 37

It is much, much, much, much x 100000 better if he just votes for his best guess, even if he doesn't have much confidence in it, even if he hasn't read/analyzed the whole game.

I mean, he should of known what he was signing up into. Since he's a new player, I really don't think his vote would be super helpful to town one way or another since he's more likely to lynch someone that everybody else is all worked up about lynching - he's most likely going to exhibit herding behavior when making his vote. That does nothing for town - about as much as a No-Lynch does.

So...in this post, ChippeRock assumes that CruaaderReynauld is Town.

Balki has a decent point here. What if Cru is scum? He shouldn't get away with not-voting (even if it were legal).


---

@Carl you makes a good point about reading and skimming and not comitting. fwiw, I'm doing that too, so add me to your list. I agree in principle, though I think this game it's moderated by the sheer size.


---

I think teacon is Mafia, annoyingly I'm finding this hard to justify, but discounting Chippe's actions as scum, and eagerness to lynch lurkers are hard for me to ignore. So I am going to have to respectfully &&VOTE teacon7

oddly, I townread you for this.

fwiw, I never said I was interested in policying lurkers. I asked others what they thought.

----



page 38

Does anyone have any initial suspicions on who the Blind Assassin?
(I don't)

yeah townleaning this guy

---

You're overreading it - I, just like everybody else, instantly assumed that the noobs in this game were town (which isn't such a horrible assumption).

Connor has used the noob card to get strong townreads throughout - and while I won't comment on whether or not that's a correct read, neither him nor Cruaader have said enough to get themselves strong townreads.

Everyone else assumes that "the noobs in the game were town"? Who does that? I don't. I have never seen that assumption before. Why would anyone assume that? Why do you assume that?

Why do you keep bringing up Connor? I don't see what that has to do at all with Cruaader.

Correlation does not mean causation. I don't think he was implying that they were town read because they were noobs, but that the globe in this game were all coincidentally town read.

It's worth noting htat we'll tend to give out n00b passes because we don't have much else to go on, and newbie town tends to look weird. Imo you still have to look for motivations behind posts. You can townread newbies, but not because they're newbies.


---

Cool, like twenty pages to read (I'm on pg 22 btw rofl) will catch up soon ya fucks geez.

I feel your pain. But I just got done with pg 39 so... woo. See you when you get here.

[teacon7]

Balki that's ridiculous. I ask questions because I want to see the answers and I want to see how people answer. You don't have to freight every question with invective or accusation in order to hunt or generate reactions. Hell, half the time people will open up and scum will slip if you're nice.

[teacon7]

Also hey balki why did you take the timestamp off of every time you quoted me? Those are all early d1 quotes, and half of them are, in fact, rhetorical questions.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Balki that's ridiculous. I ask questions because I want to see the answers and I want to see how people answer. You don't have to freight every question with invective or accusation in order to hunt or generate reactions. Hell, half the time people will open up and scum will slip if you're nice.

Oh yeah? What do expect to learn from "Do you like joke phases"?

Your ISO is full of the kind of engagement that lacks a direction. It strikes me as engagement for the sake of appearing engaged. That's effort to blend. Scum.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Also hey balki why did you take the timestamp off of every time you quoted me? Those are all early d1 quotes, and half of them are, in fact, rhetorical questions.

I did not remove timestamps. I just pasted all of the quotes into a word doc, and then I went back through and copy pasted "{quote=teacon7 user_id=100}" and {/quote}" next to all of them. Would have taken too much time to pull everything with a time stamp. Though, I do believe they were fairly spread out.

[rdrivera2005]

Teacon Is Smarmy, a Symposium

#teaconissmary
#smarmyteacon

I. Examples of Teacon Being Smarmy

Here are some examples of teacon being smarmy:

Seriously though, what do you have against joke phases?

@balki where have you been? Why are you and squigs both doing gut-reaction "pings" ?

@Nephthys
Do you like joke phases? Why?
Do you always play like this?
Do you prefer playing scum or town?

@CruaaderReynauld
@Carl Tuckerson
@ChippeRock
…
• If so, do you you prefer to play as mafia or town?
• Are you secretly a Balki clone, because he's a lot of C-words?

It was funny. You don't think funny is good?

@Prado - Please define "productive start to the game" ...what would you like to see?

How do you think the game gets started without any information?

@balki why not call me out by name? I was the one who said "town morale".

@bozo - what do you think of a lurker policy? Would you lynch moscow with us?

II. Smarminess Is Scum-Indicative

I find these questions to be smarmy. In other words, false earnestness. Ingratiating and insincere. I don't think teacon cares about the answers to these questions. I think he is just asking questions in sort of a welcoming, inclusive, manufactured sort of way.

He is not digging in to solve a puzzle. He has no vector. He is pretending. It is a false engagement designed to blend in and ingratiate himself to others, while showing no interest in answers or progress towards any goal other than to blend.

III. Conclusion

Teacon is being smarmy because he is scum.

Thank you for forcing me to look at a dictionary to discover what smarmy means. And before you bash me, English isn't my first language.

And please don't start a Teacon x Balki thing, I had enough of Teacon x Xorxes in the last game.

[teacon7]

Yeah so a question like "do you like joke phases" is a conversation opener. In context (something you don't get if you're doing isos d1 :ahem:), we were all discussing the worth of joke phases. Asking "do you like" is a vague enough opener that it gives someone room to trip themselves up, rather than asking leading questions like: "do you think joke phases generate information?"

Does everyone have to hunt the same way you do?

[That's a rhetorical question balki, the answer is no.]

[Balki Bartokomous]

Shouldn't Xorxes be telling us correctly who is scum by now?

Perhaps Xorx/teacon switched teams together?

[Percy Williams]

In my opinion, ChippeRock has either violated a game rule or is mafia. Since the GM says he has not broken any rules, he must be mafia.

Whythough? Please Explain how chippe seems scummy.

[teacon7]

Also hey balki why did you take the timestamp off of every time you quoted me? Those are all early d1 quotes, and half of them are, in fact, rhetorical questions.

I did not remove timestamps. I just pasted all of the quotes into a word doc, and then I went back through and copy pasted "{quote=teacon7 user_id=100}" and {/quote}" next to all of them. Would have taken too much time to pull everything with a time stamp. Though, I do believe they were fairly spread out.

Oh okay I see what you did. Spread out, sure. But by effectively quoting without timestamps, you're removing the timeframe from the quotations. I'm looking at those quotes from me and thinking: "wow, those were all early d1. Why'd he stop there?"

[xorxes]

In my opinion, ChippeRock has either violated a game rule or is mafia. Since the GM says he has not broken any rules, he must be mafia.

I see that it is your opinion that he has broken the rules or is mafia, but you haven't explained why. GM says he has not broken a rule, why does that make him mafia? Explain please.

If ChippeRock is a VT, he has broken the rule on gaming the role PMs. Since the GM said he has not broken any rules, I have to assume he is not a VT. I suppose he could be a town PR, but I seriously doubt that.

If the evidence suggests he is not a VT, then the proper way to deal with it is to wait and see what happens.

I still have no idea what Chippe was doing, his explanations make no sense, people who claim they get what he was doing but won't explain also make no sense (teacon and I think Squigs, but I have to reread the whole thing). People who townread him because "why would scum do something like that?" also make little sense.

[teacon7]

Shouldn't Xorxes be telling us correctly who is scum by now?

Perhaps Xorx/teacon switched teams together?

That'll happen someday, and it'll be fun. Today is not that day.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Yeah so a question like "do you like joke phases" is a conversation opener. In context (something you don't get if you're doing isos d1 :ahem:), we were all discussing the worth of joke phases. Asking "do you like" is a vague enough opener that it gives someone room to trip themselves up, rather than asking leading questions like: "do you think joke phases generate information?"

Does everyone have to hunt the same way you do?

[That's a rhetorical question balki, the answer is no.]

@teacon meta experts -- I'd be interested in your thoughts about whether teacon is smarmy like this as Town!Teacon.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I see that it is your opinion that he has broken the rules or is mafia, but you haven't explained why. GM says he has not broken a rule, why does that make him mafia? Explain please.

If ChippeRock is a VT, he has broken the rule on gaming the role PMs. Since the GM said he has not broken any rules, I have to assume he is not a VT. I suppose he could be a town PR, but I seriously doubt that.

If the evidence suggests he is not a VT, then the proper way to deal with it is to wait and see what happens.

I still have no idea what Chippe was doing, his explanations make no sense, people who claim they get what he was doing but won't explain also make no sense (teacon and I think Squigs, but I have to reread the whole thing). People who townread him because "why would scum do something like that?" also make little sense.

Speak of the Devil and he appears!

Glad to know you can be summoned.

[xorxes]

In my opinion, ChippeRock has either violated a game rule or is mafia. Since the GM says he has not broken any rules, he must be mafia.

Whythough? Please Explain how chippe seems scummy.

Percy, do you think Chippe sincerely believes he can proove he is a VT, do you think he was reaction testing, something else?

[teacon7]

Balki while you're waiting for answers there, how much weight do you think we can place on meta?

for example, last game I scumread Moscow on behavior, then townread him (to vote flav) when I did a by-the-numbers comparison of posting and participation. I lost. Granted that moscow is good enough to fake meta but... before you get answers on my meta, how much weight are you gonna put on meta all together?

[rdrivera2005]

I see that it is your opinion that he has broken the rules or is mafia, but you haven't explained why. GM says he has not broken a rule, why does that make him mafia? Explain please.

If ChippeRock is a VT, he has broken the rule on gaming the role PMs. Since the GM said he has not broken any rules, I have to assume he is not a VT. I suppose he could be a town PR, but I seriously doubt that.

If the evidence suggests he is not a VT, then the proper way to deal with it is to wait and see what happens.

I still have no idea what Chippe was doing, his explanations make no sense, people who claim they get what he was doing but won't explain also make no sense (teacon and I think Squigs, but I have to reread the whole thing). People who townread him because "why would scum do something like that?" also make little sense.

Why? Don't you think either town or scum have a motivation to post? Scum tend to try to blend, look towny or look like scum hunting. With a few exceptions (usually from vet players) people who do weird things D1 are mostly town. I am not giving him a free pass, but I have him on my town list. Why this make no sense to you?

[xorxes]

If ChippeRock is a VT, he has broken the rule on gaming the role PMs. Since the GM said he has not broken any rules, I have to assume he is not a VT. I suppose he could be a town PR, but I seriously doubt that.

If the evidence suggests he is not a VT, then the proper way to deal with it is to wait and see what happens.

I still have no idea what Chippe was doing, his explanations make no sense, people who claim they get what he was doing but won't explain also make no sense (teacon and I think Squigs, but I have to reread the whole thing). People who townread him because "why would scum do something like that?" also make little sense.

Speak of the Devil and he appears!

Glad to know you can be summoned.

You can summon me at around this time every day which is when I come home from work. If you summon me at other times you will most likely have to wait.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Balki while you're waiting for answers there, how much weight do you think we can place on meta?

for example, last game I scumread Moscow on behavior, then townread him (to vote flav) when I did a by-the-numbers comparison of posting and participation. I lost. Granted that moscow is good enough to fake meta but... before you get answers on my meta, how much weight are you gonna put on meta all together?

I don't really have an answer to this. Depends on who answers and what they answer.

I don't really have a "meta policy." I think there are some things that can be easily replicated, faked, or avoided as scum intentionally reacting to their own meta. I think there are other things that are more readable.

I'll grant you that it is possible that your smarminess is just your style of engagement, which could be consistent with some players playing town. So I am curious to hear thoughts from someone I respect, with fresh examples in mind of Town!Teacon.

[xorxes]

If ChippeRock is a VT, he has broken the rule on gaming the role PMs. Since the GM said he has not broken any rules, I have to assume he is not a VT. I suppose he could be a town PR, but I seriously doubt that.

If the evidence suggests he is not a VT, then the proper way to deal with it is to wait and see what happens.

I still have no idea what Chippe was doing, his explanations make no sense, people who claim they get what he was doing but won't explain also make no sense (teacon and I think Squigs, but I have to reread the whole thing). People who townread him because "why would scum do something like that?" also make little sense.

Why? Don't you think either town or scum have a motivation to post? Scum tend to try to blend, look towny or look like scum hunting. With a few exceptions (usually from vet players) people who do weird things D1 are mostly town. I am not giving him a free pass, but I have him on my town list. Why this make no sense to you?

Chippe seems like the kind of player that would enjoy doing weird things and I don't see him as a timid newbie.

I can see both town or scum motivation for his initial post, which is why I asked what the purpose of it was. His answers were not satisfying, but I'm willing to wait and see for a while.