Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[Tom Bombadil]

[watch reedeer end up being scum leading to Balki and I both looking like morons]

[Tom Bombadil]

*arrogant morons*

[thamrick]

Tom/Foxy/Maniac/RHK/anyone - care to give an opinion on the Bo/RJ interaction at the start of D2? I've mentioned it a few times. Balki said it also bothered him in his EoN reads (so he can put a rose on his nose if he wants). It's totally out of character and I wasn't crazy about the way Bo explained it away.

[Tom Bombadil]

I'll look at it this evening.

[Foxcastle]

@Tham, I'm on my way out the door and so didn't get to take a good close read, but a couple of interesting things: Rjm forgets Bo in his EON reads, and then he attacks Bo on two different angles. He would have just come out of being coached in the QT, and Bo's reaction doesn't make me think it was scripted... Not sure what it means.

[Tom Bombadil]

What "totally out of character" things am I looking for?

[Tom Bombadil]

I mean, I'm suspicious of his d2 mostly because he pushed ND and me the most and we are both town

[thamrick]

Tom I thought you were reading carefully!

Bo attacks anything he thinks is ridiculous or disagrees with. To me it looks like he went very easy on RJ when RJ was being ridiculous and over the top. It seemed like Bo didn't want anything to do with the conversation with RJ and was trying to create distance from him.

[Tom Bombadil]

I don't get that impression, but I'll look again.

I sort of townread bo because of how he handled the yavu claim - sticking his neck out. But he could be scum. He certainly is not in the don't lynch pool.

[thamrick]

@Meme - are you caught up in the thread?

-What do you think about RHK's claim after the Yav flip?

-What do you think about the pressure on you (scumreads, votes)?

-Your prime suspects?

[reedeer1]

Ok, I just finally caught up on the like 7 pages I was behind.
Firstly, @Demon, I did get my flu shot, but this year it was only 15% effective, so it didn't help me
Secondly, the people who I thought were town were ND, Brain, and Demon.
I never wrote brain as one of my town reads because I thought he was a PR, and by claiming a role, he was protecting himself, because no one would think he was serious. I didn't want to draw more attention to him.
I have to come out now and say that I was RB'd N1. I decided not to say because I didn't see why that would help town in any way. Soon after I realized that it is information, and that town needs all the information they can get, and so I realized my mistake, but by that time it was too late, and if I said I was RB'd people would think of my withholding information as scummy, so I waited till now. D2, brain switched to scum reading me, and so I thought that he was the nurse, and had RB'd me and was mad I did not explain it. Turns out I was wrong, but that is why Brain was always a town clear for me.
When I tried to post my vote, it was stopped because rd had just posted his vote, and so I posted an edit on the bottom saying that a scum read had just jumped on. At the time of my voting I did not know that rd was switching his vote.
I also find it weird that It seems that I am following rd, (again today, I was thinking of voting one way, and then saw rd vote for the same person, which I thought was strange.) I scum read rd because of the way he was interacting with my first two town gut reads Demon, and Brain.
D2 I was scum reading Ezio (brains who would you shoot list), and so I decided to vote that even though rd was voting him, I thought it might be a buss.
D3, I found sound logic in the lynch ND, to get a guaranteed scum, and so I was on board with that even though I thought he was town, we would be a free scum. (turns out it was only a free idiot...)


Enough of that
I am thinking less and less of MLQ
she seemed really town D1, but then as time went on, she got more and more scummy.

I think there is scum in Balki, Tom (cleared unless mafia decided not to NK, to provide a clear, something an experienced mafia would do), Bo, and vasha.
I believe there is an experienced mafia player still on the scum team, and these fit the bill. My order for likelihood is Bo-Vasha-Balki-Tom but Vasha has too little to know if he is more likely than Bo.

Thamaric has been posting half his posts in a way that rub me the wrong way, and the other half go right along with what I am thinking, but he is one of my next scum list.

rd is possible scum, but his reasoning, and logic on who is scum follow what I am thinking, so I am still not very sure at all.

Meme, could be anything, which is annoying, but is much his style. If he is town, he is not going to be winning MVP anytime soon.

These are my thoughts for now.

[thamrick]

@reedeer - I've got some questions for you. Hope you'll stick around a bit.

You're claiming RB N1? I know you already talked about it, but can you walk me through your thought process of why you didn't reveal it? I talked extensively about the RB D2 until Brain told me that scum often holster RB to not produce extra clears.

-At what point did you realize you should have revealed it?
-What made you decide you should reveal it now?

So you're saying you still scumread rdrivera? Can you point to which interaction rubbed you the wrong way with him?

Do you think it likely that mafia would not NK tonight for Tom to claim? Explain why that would be a good plan for scum and make sure to mention any possible drawbacks to the plan.

What makes you think there is an experienced mafia player on the scum team?

[thamrick]

Also, I know the flu has been rough this year. My old roommate has been down for the count with it for a few days now. Hope you're feeling better

[reedeer1]

1. I thought it might be a nurse save, because I had no Idea why the mafia would target me. If it was the nurse, I didn't want to give the scum the chance to see who had town read me D1.
1. It was about half way through D1 that I realized, but by then it was too late
2. When maniac revealed that he had held back is when I realized that i still could say it, now.
3. Not easily (I have a ton of catch up work to do and it takes a long time to find quotes) I can tell you that I think it was within the first few pages, and some of the first rd Brain conversations, and some of the first Demon and rd convos.
4. I think that an experienced mafia would know of that strategy. Tom can coast on that town clear until LYLO, and so he can even help lynch the rest of the scum, and build his town clear until the end. The draw back is that they loose their NK for a night. If tom is mafia it is likely he is Godfather, as that just makes his claim more believable if the cop already had a read on him.
I personally don't think this is what happened, I just think that it is very possible, and should not be ignored as it is.
I think there is an experienced mafia on the team, because I have at all times thought that one of these guys have been scum(it has changed which one), but I guess I don't have a strong reason behind this. I feel that a noob scum team would lynch somewhat differently. But again, I can not back that statement up.

[thamrick]

1) That's fair I suppose. So knowing that Balki claimed a RB N1 too, which do you think is more likely:

a) you were Nurse RB'd, Balki was scum RB'd
b) you were scum RB'd, Balki was Nurse RB'd
c) Balki is lying about his RB

1) I assume you mean D2, not D1.

3) When you have time, please find it for me.

4) Let me know if I'm following you correctly, you're saying you think the scum team has a mafia veteran on it because they would know of the strategy to skip a NK and make Tom look good, but you're also saying you don't think it is likely that that is what happened with Tom?

I agree that simply based on numbers, it is likely that someone who is considered an experienced mafia player is on the mafia team. Who does not qualify as an experienced mafia player from our remaining alive player pool in your opinion?

New question: What is making you unsure of Tom's clear status, besides that it is a viable strategy? What is making you doubt his claim?

[thamrick]

To elaborate on my new question - it seems like you're scumreading Tom and that's making you doubt his claim. What is making you scumread him?

[thamrick]

@rdrivera - what do you make of reedeer's recent RB claim? If true, it would mean that the Nurse would know that one of Balki/reedeer is a townclear

[reedeer1]

I am sorry I am not responding right now, I have too much work (Exam tomorrow Im not ready for).
I will do what I can tonight, and if not I will catch up and respond before EON tomorrow.
I am pretty sure tom is town, but I think it is important to think about the possibility. and if for some reason I die, someone needs to have it written for our late game towns if they absolutely can not find the last few scum.

[thamrick]

I am sorry I am not responding right now, I have too much work (Exam tomorrow Im not ready for).
I will do what I can tonight, and if not I will catch up and respond before EON tomorrow.
I am pretty sure tom is town, but I think it is important to think about the possibility. and if for some reason I die, someone needs to have it written for our late game towns if they absolutely can not find the last few scum.

You know it's Day phase right now, correct? You'll need to vote before tomorrow at 11:00 UTC - 6:00 pm EST.

For the record, I'm like 100% sure Tom is town. I'll quote the Nurse role from pg. 1:

NURSE
You are the NURSE. Each day you must vote for a suspect. Each night, you may visit a player by PM'ing both GMs with the order ##SAVE <NAME>. At the end of the night, if they have been targeted by the mafia nightkill, or if they are shot during the night, you will save their life. You will also prevent that target from performing ANY actions that occur after your visit that night. You will know if you successfully perfomed a save. Your target will be notified that they have been roleblocked, but will only be notified that they have been saved if you successfully save their life. In this situation, they will receive two separate notifications. You may not visit the same player on consecutive nights. You win when all of the Mafia have been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from happening.

So the Nurse would have been notified that Tom was saved. I can't imagine scum being desperate enough to try holstering and fake claiming save. The Nurse would be able to call them out.

So Nurse, I'm sure you've done it already or know to, but make sure you list Tom as a clear town if you die and know he was saved. You SHOULD NOT out yourself to reveal he was saved and only out yourself if you know he's lying and think it's a good time (i.e. pretty much auto-win).

Like I said, I think it's very unlikely for scum to risk that play with the Nurse still alive. Tom is pretty townclear in my eyes.

[rdrivera2005]

@Demon:

You dropped rdrivera from your suspects based on your D2 analysis saying “rd looks good here, his vote making it 6-5 Vash from 6-4 Vash”. First of all, I assume this is based on the assumption that Vashta is town. However, even if Vashta is town, this would be a reasonable time for rdrivera to bus. Vashta had gone from 1 vote to 6 votes in minutes, and Maniac, who seemed to start the Vashta wagon by advocating it, had not voted yet. Rdrivera could have felt switching from Ezio to Rjmcf instead of Vashta 6 minutes before EOD was a reasonably safe way to end on a scum wagon while Vashta would be lynched. rdrivera did the same thing D1, switching from Ezio to Jamie 5 minute before EOD making the vote ND 6, Balki 5, Jamie 4 from ND 6, Balki 5, Jamie 3. Again, he could have felt it was a safe bus with both ND and Balki still ahead of Jamie.

One of the reasons reedeer looks suspicious is because of the way he was following rdrivera’s votes D1 and D2 after listing rdrivera as his top scum read. I do not know how experienced reedeer is, but it seems like reedeer could have been making an inexperience scum mistake following his teammate after trying to bus him early. During D2 rdrivera questions reedeer for following his vote. It looks like rdrivera could have been warning reedeer to stop doing it knowing how bad it looked and was trying to distance himself from reedeer by bring it up before anyone else did. I think there is a good case that rdrivera and reedeer are both scum.

Bozo, if I am scum and want to teach scum Reedeer to not follow me I will do it on Mafia QT, considering it was night phase. This kind of shitty logic is what usually makes me scumread you. I am really trying to avoid this in this game.
Anyway, if you think I am a serial busser maybe allow me to bus two more teammates before lynching me.