Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

[ghug]

Ghug/Flum get off each other. It's a waste of time and we're not going to get any useful reactions this way.

You two need to throw shit at Squiggs and Damian.

Those two are by far the most useful flips at the moment.

You're dropping xorxes just because I wasn't immediately ready to join you on him?

What's town about Flum right now?

[Ezio]

Ghug you've asked everyone to trust you about me without defending me. I'm asking you to trust Flum right now.

Yes I'm dropping Xorxes because you're not interested in following me. I don't think I've been in a game with you where you've misread xorxes, so if you're trying to wait another day I figure we can wait another day.

[Vecna]

I town read xorx very early on because gut, but not much since then.
Damian... I have no idea yet.

I second this

[Vecna]

Plus, just looks at xorxes meta man. This is so completely wrong for him as town, and so completely in line with his scum play it's unreal.
He had a scumread, didn't find any connections to it, and didn't push anyone one onto it.

Look at the game where he was cop and scanned me. He knew one scum and immediately started making connections. He pushed people onto his scumread.
Any of that this game?

Ah fuck I've convinced me self.
##vote xorxes

Hmmm. yeah, I cannot deny this resonates with me

[Vecna]

TLDR:
Xorxes scum.
Damian scummy.

Ghug, flum, vecna town.

Ezio towniest of all for solving the game.

Two pretty towny posts

[Vecna]

I honorsry scumread to squigges because of Tom's last breath. I kinda agree with it too, but mostly because Tom's pretty good at the game and probably best scumhunter aside from xorxes, who is not to be trusted.
(If balki doesn't take offense to that he's not reading the thread.)

How do you feel about Balki himself?

[Vecna]

Ok flum do me a favor. You say I'm smart (thank$) but frankly I think I suck at scumhinting. I'm much better at townxlearing people.
Here's the favor:
Read xorxes. Then read him again. Remember all the past games of xorxes carrying everyone's assss? Does this look or feel anything like that?

He's not usually doing that a lot on day1 though - to be fair

[Vecna]

I knew something seemed wrong about Fox's post.
I'm really not sure "I was comfortable with a damian lynch" is coming from. It doesn't make sense as a post mortem on his voting.

His vote for Ezio came after the wagon on me was already down to 2 people.
He also posted about Squig and ND on page 18 after the ND wagon had started rolling.

I was no longer particularly likely to be lynched when he was making his votes. Feels odd, like he was just looking for something to say about the day

ddue

u talk words like a lizare vomit vomitables

Oh boy

[Vecna]

Flum, Ezio: These slots are my townlocks

Fox: Pretty sure he's town, but theres a small chance he is just fooling me

Ghug, Bozo: I think theyre slightly more likely to be town than scum, but im not really sure yet. On Bozo that worries me. When is the obv-towning coming Bozo? Like post stuff

That leaves these 5 slots that I think contain all scum:
Balki Bartokomous
Damian
Rdrivera2005
Squigs44
xorxes

Im feeling pretty bad for saving Squigs now (not really though). He's probably gonna end up being scum, since he still hasnt produced anything worthwhile, and that slip is just bullshit. I honestly think there is no way a town Squigs doesnt know who just died, and some dumbass on his team probably put him up to saying that to try and get pressure off of his back.

Balki is just in full on scummode. Trying to ask for a mass-claim. Poking at Ezio's words to try and frame it in a pro-scum way. He came on before EOD, asked for people about a potential vote, probably saw that Squigs was gonna be alright, so he just vanished.

I personally think the scum is Balki + squigs + one of (Damian/Rd/Xorx/Ghug/Bozo)

[Vecna]

##vote Balki

[rdrivera2005]

I found this Ghug wagon pretty weird. Did a quick re-read on him and didn't found anything really scummy other then his low posting (not only on quantity but also quality).
The votes on him are also weird. Fox voted him because he could be bussing Squigs (why not vote Squigs?). Flum voted him because of OMGUS (or was it a joke)? And Xorxes voted him as a placeholder.

Ezio improved today, started to give some content, but is still doing some scummy things. Why buddy Ghug this way? Also, the push on Xorxes seems a lot like he is trying to change his meta then a real push.

I really dislike Balki suggestion of a mass claim at this point. He knows it won't happen now. And it could be PR fishing, as obviously no PR will claim, but the way people react to the proposition could give some info to scum. Still don't see how suggesting this help town.

I am really getting scum vibes from Damian. I think his push on Fox seems forced and he clearly misrepresented my reaction (or lack of reaction as Fox answered for me) but didn´t follow questioning me, seems satisfied to just throw some shade on someone that is already scum read for some other people (I know it´s OMGUS). I think he look more like a scum trying to find a target then a town trying to find scum.
##vote Damian for now

[rdrivera2005]

Also, I won't be online at EOD. I have an important tennis game and won't be online from one hour before EOD to an hour after it.

[Vecna]

Yeah its very possible I wont be online for EOD either.

[bozotheclown]

So an ND wagon develops at EOD to save Squigs, half of the Squigs wagon ends up dead, then Squigs asks Tom questions and he is being town read for it? Here is a question for everyone, what are the chances you would immediately forget someone was killed when they were voting for you?

[bozotheclown]

I reviewed ND posts and see no reason why he would be considered a scum suspect. This post reflected my thoughts on Squigs voting for me:

Someone want to explain the Squig wagon to me?
He’s looked pretty town to me thus far.

I’m not really buying the low effort vote argument. Considering the pressure vote for bozo got him to engage. (Possibly suspicious, given that Bozo doesn’t have the desire/time to look at anyone else.)

What's to explain. He's rambling about being "hungry to solve" on page 9 then just plops his vote on the lowest guy (probably) I haven't checked with a post history. It's pretty funny.

[Foxcastle]

From what I have seen, scum tend to avoid clumping together, so I really doubt all three of them are on ND. That's not perfect in this case, because if Squigs was saved, then the scum had to support the ND wagon to do it. But even in that case, I think at least one scum would go somewhere else, and where better than to bus their scummate who they know is likely to remain on the chopping block in coming days?

If it was town-v-town, then scum didn't need to help the ND wagon at all. My general thought on scum is that they don't want to clump up and they want to blend in, they don't want to be implicated in a mislynch but also don't want to be seen totally avoiding the action, and so the second place wagon is a good place for one of them to land.

But I think this is the smallest game I've played, and that could make a difference (I don't see how, but maybe), and also they have a day chat, which means they can coordinate themselves much better if they do decide to bus/clump/whatever.

The four votes on the Squigs wagon were old, and the most recent we know was town, so no one on Squigs (specifically ghug or myself) could have made the kinds of decisions you are talking about, since we had no way of knowing how the vote would end. We certainly would not know we would end up on the second place wagon.

The old votes still make sense if ghug or you are scum, and certainly I have seen games where scum camped on a wagon and let the action happen around them. Ghug is a known busser, so if Squigs is scum, it makes a lot of sense for scum-ghug to bus and sit there as the wagon grows. If Squigs is town, scum-ghug or scum-bozo got lucky that the wagon grew like it did, and again, it makes good sense for them to just sit there. They justify their read, but don't create any additional record to investigate.

I actually agree with Bozo here (that's a sentence I'm pleasantly surprised to be able to say). Ghugs vote was before anyone else's, so there is no way he voted me based on wagons.
What I especially find concerning about Fox is his mindset in this post. He seems to assume that one of them is scum, and builds from there. He says if ghug/Bozo is scum, their actions make sense, but fails to acknowledge that if they are town, there is a reasonable explanation for them voting the way they did.

Yes, I'm clear about making an assumption about how scum tend to distribute themselves. That's not a "mindset", that's something I stated up front. And that assumption could be wrong here, but in general I think it's true enough to pull on that thread.

Also, scum usually have reasonable explanations for what they do that make sense if you want to believe they're town. So that's not really a compelling counterargument, and this makes me wonder if you're being a little reactionary in your pushback on this idea (and oblique defense of ghug and bozo) rather than thinking it through.

Also, I can't decide if I think Squigs is scum anymore. On the one hand, he has a motive to hide his scum meta. On the other hand, questioning Tom after he's dead is so outrageous that it's impossible to tell if it's a real townslip or manufactured and becomes a big WIFOM hole.

[Foxcastle]

Sunday would be the optimal time to push your wagon then. I'll jot that down in case I'm still here.

If there's any protective role out there consider that in a recent game Tom was the N1 kill and I was the N2 kill, so please bear that in mind.

I'll be sure to put a reads list up before I leave, then. Probably good to wait a couple days before you reuse that tactic, too. Good thinking.

This call for protection strikes me as a little scummy. If you're scum, it's a great way to draw PRs away from actual targets. But also, it's true. But also, I think everyone here likely already knows you're an early fearkill target, so why draw attention to it? But also, if everyone knew it, they should have known it about Tom, and it didn't help him.

[bozotheclown]

##Vote ND
Willing to switch to Ezio

Ezio had 2 votes, why start a new wagon on ND?

##Vote ND

Sounds like a party

Can you give me a game where he was manic scum so I can skim through it?

My advise would be to -not- try to meta-logic yourself into an ND read. Look at his posts for genuine "THESE WOULD ONLY EVER BE THOUGHT OF BY TOWN PLAYERS" type of posts. That is how you can get a dependable townread on the slot. Otherwise, youre just gonna get endgames by ND. When he's trying, he is one of the most convincing scum players on this website. (the very stark exception being two games ago, where he went in full-on trump lol-mode).

Voting for ND just because he would be a threat as scum?

You do realize that logic is roughly similair to the logic being used against Squigs right? I really dont see why youre so opposed to the wagon. ND as town has limited influences on the game, his reads generally arent stellar, but his townplay is often recognizable. but he is a big danger that often endgames if scum. I dont see any problem with taking a small gamble on that here.

In my mind it has a much better chance of flipping scum than the alternatives. So kindly, unless you have reason to townread the slot, shove your shading of our ND wagon .

I'm sold by this reasoning
##VOTE ND

Which part of this sold you? I did not like this argument to vote for ND, it had nothing to do with this game.

I don't like voting ND or Ezio, I'd prefer Rdrivera. But since I like the people on the ND wagon much much better than the ones on the Ezio wagon, I'll
##vote ND

Self preservation with some hedging thrown in.

Fuck. I was leaning towards Ezio. But we can't have a three way tie.

I think you're right about Squig being a better town asset and easier to read later if he's faking. Fine. ##vote ND

Why can't there be a 3 way tie with 4 minutes left? If you preferred to lynch Ezio, why not make a case earlier?

Between ND and Squigs
##vote ND

OK by comparison.

As bad as the ND votes look, probably only one or two are scum. Probably two if Squigs is scum (Squigs and someone else).

The surviving voters besides myself are ghug, Foxcastle, Balki, and Ezio. It is likely at least one is scum.

[Fluminator]

I was gonna criticize you for only paying attention to one thing, but honestly it's accurate.

Ezio's been super town.

I don't like the way Flum started to set up the Squiggles wagon, but I think his switch to me was less bad. Still ok with lynching him.

Xorxes's read evolved on Squiggles and he made a good point on Fox, which is enough to make me want to wait to lynch him until tomorrow.

Balki solve the game for me please.

It's not a true webdip game if we don't have ghug vs. flum competing wagons. But, uh...., I think you're going to have to do a lot more work to get me a working candidate. What are the odds you think you get me lynched?

Prolly like 2. I'm pretty busy.


I think Balki wants info because he's a frustrated townie. Are you a frustrated townie, Flum?

I dont see he frustrated Balki thing? Why is everything so off about you his game? Unless someone else sees it?

I'm not really frustrated yet no.

[Foxcastle]

Reread Ezio and he's looking pretty towny at this point. Particularly a lot of his recent stuff outweighs my early reaction to his increased posting and alternate voting plan.