Trump planning to end law and rule as supreme dictator

[Jamiet99uk]

The Trump administration is considering suspending the writ of habeas corpus, the legal right to challenge one’s detention, Stephen Miller, a top White House adviser, said on Friday.

What is it like living in a Nazi dicatorship, American friends?

What are you doing about it?

[Octavious]

Is this another one of those anti-Trump fantasies like when the usually sensible Berti allowed himself to be utterly convinced that Trump was intending to run for a third term, or is there actual substance behind it?

[Jamiet99uk]

There is actual substance:

BBC News - Trump administration considers suspending habeas corpus
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0qgz18glljo

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

They already are disappearing residents to Salvadoran gulags with no due process and Trump said on camera it's his intention to do that to "homegrowns" next...

[Octavious]

It's not as if habeas corpus is the keystone of liberty. It has been suspended by multiple countries at multiple times for the sake of convenience. Trudeau the elder did so back in the 70s, and there were the infamous suspensions to allow mass imprisonment of foreign linked individuals back in the war, to name a couple. More recently it was only in 2008 that US judges decided it applied to places like Guantanamo Bay at all.

Still, having said that it is a useful addition to the democratic tool box and rule of law, and if I were a Yank I'd be loathe to see it suspended without dire need. But I'm not a Yank, and some democracies seem to function perfectly fine without it, so I'm not particularly inclined to jump on the Nazi dictatorship bandwagon. Especially as I think the likelihood is that nothing will actually happen

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Oct you're a moron.

It's obviously concerning that ICE is grabbing people off the street and shipping them to a Salvadoran prison from which they can't be reclaimed, without so much as confirming their identity. All in direct defiance of the highest court.

Trump says out loud, on camera, he wants to expand this extraordinary rendition program to Americans, dropping the pretense that this is for illegal residents.

Now Steven Miller is trying to do exactly this. Out loud. No pretense.

Guantanamo Bay was bad lol Jesus Christ. What's even the point with you.. People were shocked by and opposed Guantanamo for great reasons.

Why shouldn't people care about this? What good does warrantless and trial-less detention do? What actual democracy does that?

[Octavious]

You'll forgive me, Bert, after your recent run of form on Trump if I take what you say with a pinch of salt. Does it not concern you at all how easily you were taken in by that third term nonsense?

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

You'll forgive me, Bert, after your recent run of form on Trump if I take what you say with a pinch of salt. Does it not concern you at all how easily you were taken in by that third term nonsense?

I've been "taken in" by the the thing Trump says earnestly and repeatedly that he wants to do?

I thought your reflexive defense of Trump had morphed from "he doesn't want a third term" to "term limits are stupid", which is at least more coherent in light of the evidence coming directly from Trump's mouth.

[Octavious]

It was obvious that he didn't want a third term. Really quite blatantly obvious to the point that I struggle to understand how you ever managed to reach the conclusion you did.

Where are you getting "defense of Trump" from? Seriously, in what sense is it a defence? An opinion that term limits are daft and an observation that Trump has no intention whatsoever of trying to get one is not a defence. I don't even know what exactly it's meant to be defending

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

How do you decide which things Trump says earnestly and repeatedly are just jokes? "He never wanted a third term" is a weird explanation for his repeated earnest pronouncement that he would in fact like a third term. That he very recently said otherwise doesn't really clarify his intentions - why should I believe his most recent claim that he's not interested in a third term, and not the repeated opposing statements he's made in recent years?

My guess is, like most things with Trump, what he says is neither a plan nor a joke. He puts forward ideas he thinks are good, or that he at least thinks are good for him, and just sees what resistance he encounters. Where there's little resistance, he pushes in that direction. He may indeed have been convinced a third term isn't realistic at his age and given Constitutional constraints that *might* be hard to circumvent (though the court has been rather pliable lately...)

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

^ All this, by the way, seems a little beside the point of your earliest post, which was a "nothing to see here" defense of warrantless and trial-less deportations to prisons in a foreign dictatorship...

[Octavious]

How do you decide which things Trump says earnestly and repeatedly are just jokes? "He never wanted a third term" is a weird explanation for his repeated earnest pronouncement that he would in fact like a third term

Go on then, prove your point. Let's see how many videos of Trump earnestly saying he wants a third term you can show us. As you say he has done this repeatedly I'm assuming that you can provide links to quite a few with minimal effort.

^ All this, by the way, seems a little beside the point of your earliest post, which was a "nothing to see here" defense of warrantless and trial-less deportations to prisons in a foreign dictatorship

What defence? I very clearly said it was a bad idea

it is a useful addition to the democratic tool box and rule of law, and if I were a Yank I'd be loathe to see it suspended without dire need

Sometimes I wonder whether we're speaking the same language. Does loathe mean something different in Canadian? Putting it into some historical context and refusing to join Jamie's perpetual Nazi witch hunt is not the same as supporting something

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

I've already evidence this point in a different thread - you decided you didn't like the NYT. I'm sure you're capable of googling and finding a source to your liking.

In response to concerns about lawless extradition you said habeaus corpus wasn't important and went on to list a bunch of other totally unrelated times it had been suspended. As always on these issues your tone is dismissive, your arguments are deflective, and you appear more interested in nitpicking than genuinely grappling with the threat to democratic norms.

I agree Jamie might be mostly wrong rushing to the Hitler comparison. I think the most accurate comparison today might be to Erdogan. Where Jamie and I agree is that US democracy is increasingly flawed and that this should matter to its citizens.

[Octavious]

I've already evidence this point in a different thread - you decided you didn't like the NYT

I've not held any respect for the NYT for many years due to their wildly inaccurate reporting. To suggest that I suddenly decided I didn't like them is rather disingenuous of you.

Also, if you are basing your belief that Trump has repeatedly and earnestly said he wants a third term on a single interview, let's quote the actual interview

“A lot of people want me to do it,” he said to the program’s host, Kristen Welker, about the possibility of a third term. “But we have — my thinking is, we have a long way to go. I’m focused on the current.”

That is very much not saying that he's intending to stand for a third term. He has literally never said that he intends to stand for a third term. You have no evidence to base your belief on whatsoever. The most you can take from that interview, assuming you believe everything he says, is that he hasn't ruled it out, and even that is a bit far fetched

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/05/02/trump-third-term/

https://apnews.com/article/trump-third-term-constitution-22nd-amendment-efba31be02ee96b0ef68b17fe89b7578

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/30/g-s1-57231/trump-third-term

https://www.the-sun.com/news/13904991/trump-third-term-bid/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/30/trump-third-term-president

[Octavious]

You do realise that 6 reports about a single interview does not equal multiple occasions of Trump doing anything? It is a single event. An event in which Trump doesn't say that he's running for a third term, earnestly or otherwise.

Your evidence is bunk. You have built a steadfast belief on a foundation of pure make believe. I am astounded and somewhat disappointed that you are persevering with this fantasy

[CaptainFritz28]

Those are bold words, Oct. I usually find the others guilty of groundshifting and hyperbole more than yourself, but I'll admit, while the (majority of the) substance of your points are true, you're certainly not making it easy for Bert or Jamie to agree with you.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Oct you've put yourself beyond evidence.

It's six articles that talk about a history of statements, including direct quotes that he's not joking about a third term and that he and his team have thought through how that might be accomplished. The various links are for your benefit, since you have silly habit of denigrating the source rather than engaging with the material whenever an idea doesn't suit your preconceptions.

I don't think he'll get a third term but it's just weird to act like he's never talked about it ...

All this is so much less interesting and important than the original topic of this thread — the admin is trying to find a nonsense legal justification to detain Americans without due process, partly to justify the detentions they've already done without even bothering to establish a pretense ...

[Octavious]

I don't feel any great need to Bert or Jamie agree with me on everything. But you're right, I am getting somewhat impatient with this nonsense. It is frustrating when someone like Bert, who generally plays with a straight bat, allows himself to post blatant untruths. And it is disappointing, when instead of acknowledging this, he decides to double down on the falsehood.

It is not unreasonable, I would have thought, that if you're making such an outlandish statement such as "Trump says earnestly and repeatedly that he wants a third term" you should be able to back it up with a handful of examples.

But no, instead we have a single interview (referenced multiple times... We can with confidence say that this interview did indeed happen) in which he never says anything of the sort. Sure, he toys with the journalist. He says many people want him to stand again (this is undoubtedly true). He says that there are ways it could happen (this is technically true, but those ways are damned near impossible). He also says he's focused on the here and now and that it's far too early to think about.

None of that falls anywhere near the category of someone earnestly saying that they intend on getting a third term, certainly not repeatedly saying anything. And yet Bert parades half a dozen reports about the interview to inflate their numbers like Benito Mussolini ordering his tanks to complete several laps of the town centre to make his parade look bigger.

And yet again I'm portrayed as a massive Trump fan purely because I'm sick and tired by the constant stream of misleading information by the same people who berate Trump for his constant stream of misleading information.

And it never ends. Berti sees the red mist descend out of a sense of patriotic pride whenever Trump is mentioned, and that's sadly every other day, and Jamie has been indulging in his Nazi hunting fantasies in one shape or another for as long as he's been here. When they are 8n tandem it wears you down somewhat

[Octavious]

It's six articles that talk about a history of statements, including direct quotes that he's not joking about a third term and that he and his team have thought through how that might be accomplished. The various links are for your benefit, since you have silly habit of denigrating the source rather than engaging with the material whenever an idea doesn't suit your preconceptions.

Why is it that whenever Trump says anything that fits your negative narrative you treat it as absolute gospel but when he says something positive you treat it with extreme skepticism? There is broad justification for a skeptical approach, but that has to applied universally rather than to turn it off whenever you hear something that appeals to you.

All this talk, of course, and you have provided literally zero evidence of Trump saying that he intends to run for a third term. Zilch. Nothing. Because, presumably, he has never done so. Because he doesn't want to and because it is politically impossible to make happen even if he did. I am beyond evidence only in the sense that you don't have any.

All this is so much less interesting and important than the original topic of this thread — the admin is trying to find a nonsense legal justification to detain Americans without due process, partly to justify the detentions they've already done without even bothering to establish a pretense ...

I couldn't disagree more. There is no mileage in the original topic. It's a bad idea, everyone agrees, the end. The only disagreement of any note is how likely we think it will actually happen, but time will answer that question for us. If the thread hadn't branched out it would have ceased to be active some time ago, possibly to be revived briefly by the musings of the good Major or some Brainbomb satire