Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[Foxcastle]

As for DemonRHK... I don't buy that claim. I don't actually know why town believes anyone who claims a PR under pressure during day in any game. As far as I can tell, it's just how scum 1) save themself, 2) draw out real PRs as counter claims. I would bet all the money I have in my Toon Town Savings & Loan account that night 1 in the Mafia QT included some version of "Why didn't Jamiet claim a PR? That was dumb, even if it didn't save him, he could have drawn out a real PR. Remember scumteam, always claim a PR!" (Which Rjm missed being able to do for not being around EOD.)

As for the specifics, I think the "A cineophile is someone who watches a ton of movies" is a pathetic crumb. DemonRHK wasn't afraid to set out policy posts about not lurking that would have been a fine place to leave a crumb; why leave a crumb in a response to someone else's attack on him? Tom comes after him with a vote, they have a back-and-forth over the course of about 20 minutes, and is he really thinking, "You know, I can get a twofer in here: a crumb that's also a counter to Tom's attack on me"? And the conclusion that Brain "seems lonely lately" as the confirmation looks more like an effort to link Brain to scum. Why would the town Watcher, with a clear read on Brain, 1) wait until Page 87—43 pages after he knew—to crumb the result, and 2) do it in a way that casts doubt on Saint Brainbomb the Innocent.

Here's a concession, though: it took DemonRHK less than 5 minutes to answer Tom's request to be convinced. Which probably means that DemonRHK didn't have to go scrambling through his posts to both find a crumb and justify it. However, if I'm right that the Mafia QT has been discussing the many scum benefits of PR claims, he could have done that work earlier in the night phase, and even written his EON reads to include the crumb because, knowing there's pressure on him, he expects to have to claim.

Tom's claim is less suspect to me. Half an hour is too risky for scum to claim a PR without risk of being copped. (Alternate version: Tom is Godfather and fears not the Cop.)

[Foxcastle]

Hi Balki, I see you there. What are you thinking these days?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Please read this Balki response to MLQ, and then use our gun to flip MLQ

Now that I've got 4 votes, I feel like I should start defending myself because no one else is going to.

This is called appeal to emotion. When you don't have the facts on your side, you try to trigger heart strings.

Here's the thing I don't get about the people voting for me. If I was scum, you can be for damn certain I would have come out on the right side of one of those votes. I stayed on balki D1 because I was convinced he was scum at the time, and on D2 I was convinced rjm wasn't scum. If I was scum with either rjm or jamie, I would have jumped at the chance to distance myself from both, but instead I didn't know how they'd flip and got blind-sided by both flips. I would have just not defended rjm at the end of day there and hopped on him like a good scum would.

This is called "Wine in Front of Me" or "WIFOM." When you have been subtly trying to advance the scum win condition, you argue "Scum would never try to advance their own win condition -- that just makes them easier to catch."

Three responses:

(1)

Definition of Occam's razor
: a scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities

(2) My concern with your Day 1 play, in particular, was not your vote. It was your subtle attempts to keep Jamiet out of the crosshairs. You used general language to try to sweep away criticisms of Jamiet's play. "That's all crap, he's just acting dumb," and you suggested 30 minutes before he was lynched that his wagon was not viable. And I think the concerns with your relationship with RJ is more about his defense of you. The fact that you also voted off the two scum lynches both days compounds these issues, but your votes are not the only evidence here that you are scum.

(3) While it's easy to say now that you wouldn't vote off both wagons because it looks too scummy, when you locked into your positions defending Jamiet and RJ, you did not know that they would flip.

You also argue:

Another thing I don't get, is if I'm scum, why the hell would I kill brainbomb?

Maybe because he claimed Cop with 30 minuted before EON with an innocent scan on someone who is innocent? You were clearly well aware of Brainbomb's cop claim. You didn't even bother to check if he was indeed the cop before you posted on Day 2.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Hi Balki, I see you there. What are you thinking these days?

Just composing a post on my favorite subject. Happy to talk about other parts of the game too. Any questions?

[Foxcastle]

I think you're tunneling MLQ.
Do you think I'm tunneling DemonRHK?

[Foxcastle]

Which is not to say either of us is wrong in our conclusions, mind you.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I think you're tunneling MLQ.
Do you think I'm tunneling DemonRHK?

It depends how you define tunneling. I think DemonRHK is probably town. I think MLQ is probably scum.

I think your continued discussion of DemonRHK is not useful right now. DemonRHK is locked into a PR claim. Eventually, we will know if he was being honest about that or not. It is not useful to press him right now.

On the other hand, my discussion of MLQ is very important right now. She has received no pressure from anyone but me. She is off Town Jesus's list. She seems to be off everyone's radar screen. I feel like I have a duty to shout her name from the rooftops. I want to see her flip, and I think it will help us a lot to see her flip. For example, when she flips scum, I am going to become another virtual clear. Let's please do this.

[Maniac]

Investigation on MeanLaQueefa


Really? Nothing suspect? Not even that a known scum was propping her up as town leader?

What RJCMF did has no real bearing on MLQ. Scum lie and manipulate, that's what they do. Look at what MLQ does and how she reacts.

[thamrick]

If you want to follow brains dying wish (a good idea) what makes you swap out rdrivera for MLQ?

I think Brain overstated MLQ's town-ness. His argument for MLQ being 110% town was that a scum would never say the things she was saying because they were too aggressive.

Rdrivera's reaction to the EoN festivities are what led me to scumread him along with some other sneaking suspicions I'd had (Jamiet's "organic and towny" comment, overly defensive posts during D2), but his exchange with me felt very sincere.

Why do you say Brain's dying wish had rdrivera in his scum? I reread N2. He hardly mentioned rivera.

[Foxcastle]

What will you do if Mean flips town?
Will you be preemptively dramatic and make grand bargains about how if you're wrong we should shoot you?

[Tom Bombadil]

"Why do you say Brain's dying wish had rdrivera in his scum?"

You said he was. You said " He was strongly suspicious of reedeer, yavuz, rdrivera, and bo."

I

[Foxcastle]

Oh, remember that post I had, at your behest, Balki, about Tom?
Where I concluded that Tom is either trying to play too-dumb-for-scum or is simply playing poorly. What if Tom's the Godfather? That excuses all sorts of his behavior. He doesn't care if he looks suspicious as hell on D1, maybe he even hopes the Cop will scan him and clear him.

Would scum Tom actually bus his Witch, though? He jumps on that almost 10 hours out and never changes out.

[Balki Bartokomous]

What will you do if Mean flips town?
Will you be preemptively dramatic and make grand bargains about how if you're wrong we should shoot you?

No. That's dumb. I am a Town Treasure (TM) and should not be shot under any circumstances.

If she flips Town, I will use that information to read through the thread and find Scum. Same thing as if she flips Scum.

[Tom Bombadil]

I remember that post Foxy. And I remember my feelings we hurt that you think I'm playing poorly.

[thamrick]

What RJCMF did has no real bearing on MLQ. Scum lie and manipulate, that's what they do. Look at what MLQ does and how she reacts.

I would agree in general. In this vacuum though, Rj's play style told me he was a loose cannon. Look at D1. He was clearly a detriment to his team. That's why Jamiet firmly had him in his scum reads.

Also though, I am looking at her actions. Her posts feel very prepared, with lots of "pressure relief moments" - smiley faces, hearts, "rustles my jimmies," "borks," etc. that feel over-the-top forced to me.

She firmly townread rjmcf - literally gave no consideration to the possibility that he could be mafia - other than (paraphrasing) "if rj was scum, he was buddying me hard, and I don't think he would do that because it's too obvious." Why would she feel like he wouldn't do that. She could say "if I were scum, I wouldn't do that"

[Foxcastle]

I would never deliberately hurt you, Tom. You were you were the first person to scumread me, and will always have a special place in my heart.

##vote Tom

[Tom Bombadil]

Lol.

When I look at that rj wagon I see 100% town.

[Maniac]

@foxy - i don't mind scanning the thread for people's opinions on my shoot list

@Balki - if nurse visited me last night and DemonRHK is the watcher who will get RB tonight. I'm the hot target tonight/ You can push a MLQ list then. For now help me decide my kill.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Also, MLQ says that she would never kill brainbomb because brainbomb would be defending her right now.

Here is the last brainbomb read on the scum team:

My analysis of both RJ and Jamie ISO puts scumteam at

{Ezio-yavuz--thamrick-MLQ}

Rubbish.

[Tom Bombadil]

And godfather would be the least likely person to bus as they don't need that cover because they are godfather.