Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[brainbomb]

Remember all those ppl wantong to shoot vash or RJMCF?

Hmm what happened to all them?

[MeanLaQueefa]

Ok, Balki, you’re argument against me confirms you haven’t read my posts this entire game or don’t care about representing the truth.

“(1) I had a town read on MLQ because I thought she was new to the game, and I’ve never seen New Scum target an active, aggressive, experienced player with a scum read on Day 1. But I did not realize that MLQ actually has a ton of experience. It sounds like she may have more experience with mafia and mafia-related games than anyone here. Based on that, the profile of what I’m looking for is different, and my reasons for reading her as town go to Null.”

I said I had irl mafia experience at the beginning of the game, though I doubt I’m the most experienced mafia player here, it should have been obvious by now to you that I had experience even if you missed my post at the beginning.

“(2) MLQ was very aggressive in trying to protect Jamiet Day 1. Go back and read her interactions with me on that subject. She kept using vague generalities to say “your reasons for suspecting Jamiet are crap.” And then she insisted I was scum for continuing to vote Jamiet when Jamiet was not a viable wagon. That was really odd because a lot of people had expressed suspicion at Jamiet at that point, and I thought that he was pretty obviously a viable wagon at the time, which clearly he was. Based on the Jamiet flip, I think MLQ behavior makes the most sense as scum trying to keep her partner from being a leading wagon at the end of Day 1.”

I never defended Jamie, I attacked your argument against him because it was crap, and because I thought you were scum. One thing made jamie’s lynch viable and that was him leaving out vash as a scumread when he was voting him, that’s what lead to him actually being lynched. You got lucky if you’re town or were throwing your own teammate down if you’re scum. Your argument was bad, and I still think that. I even asked you why you were voting jamie and you said:

"Eh, it's day 1. It's hard to tell who's scum. These are tonal reads, and they are fraught with error, but we have to do the best we can. I think Jamiet, Darg, and Brain are most likely to flip scum."

In other words, you didn't have reasons to back up your crap argument.

“(3) She keeps saying I’m stupid or dumb! Over and over like a Trumpian refrain. I feel her trying to discredit me. I feel like she wants to lead, and she wants to discredit threats to that leadership.”

My entire argument against you being scum hinged on you being an intelligent player. I've said it many, many times. 90% of the questions you’ve asked in this game have had obvious answers or have already been answered elsewhere. Therefore, they’re dumb questions. That’s the crux of my bad feelings about you balki, why is somebody who appears intelligent and has a history of good play, apparently, acting like he can’t follow even basic information in the thread. You’re not paying attention. You’re actions and questions have been very stupid for a large portion of this game, and this most recent push against me tops them all, because you’ve clearly misunderstood basically everything I’ve said.

[DemonRHK]

I am of the opinion brain needs to out who he gunned right now, or rescind and face the consequences. Because with the scum PRs in play, they might have more info on brain than we do at this point. And I don't want a gunshot ringing out from, an unknown person 30 minutes to end of day causing chaos more than there already is.

Can you outline what you're worried about with the scum PRs?
Hooker - could have RB'd BB, he claims he wasn't RB'd
Witch - wouldn't curse BB if they thought he was GS, but would try for his target
Stalker - could figure out if BB really was GS, but there's bigger fish to fry for mafia (finding cop & nurse seem more important to me)
Godfather - no info
Thief - Dead

And yes. Mafia have more info on Brain at this point than we do. They know whether he's Mafia or not.

I agree with you though. A random gunshot could be bad for town if a townie gets hit.

I'm worried that they've stalked him, know his role, and we're left guessing. Mafia in general is a game based around gathering information.

The issue is, and many times the meta reasoning used to push early brain lynches, is because this shit happens and he intentionally obscures the game even more.

Brain being alive means:
- Mafia does not believe him AT ALL
OR
- Mafia is doubtful, and did not rb him (or he didn't claim it, which would be worse) and didn't witch him to hope town did it for them/No one in town checked on him.
OR
- Brain is scum.

----
However, I'm going to drop it for now, because frankly his schoolyard 'I'm not telling nya nya nya' antics kinda pissed me off.

I still think RJ is a solid lynch.

[bo_sox48]

I'll respond to it when I have some time to spare. But, for now it's baloney.

Spell it "bologna" next time and I'll let you off the hook until you have some time to spare.

[bo_sox48]

Bo.

Very clearly town.

You feelin better man?

Better than 12 hours ago. It will pass. Thanks.

[thamrick]

Remember all those ppl wantong to shoot vash or RJMCF?

Hmm what happened to all them?

*raises hand* still here

[Foxcastle]

I have not fully read the past 3-4 hours, but 1) Rjm is still scum, 2) something is seeming off about DRHK. I am probably done for tonight, but will be up bright and early for a reread.

[rdrivera2005]

I read everything and I am having a headache trying to figure out what is happening. This Balki and MQF thing seems weird, but I still think it's town x town.

@Brain - It's not 41 degrees here in Brasil (at least where I live) but it's hot enough for me to be spending the next two weeks at the beach.

I still have scum reads on Ezio and Vashta and RJ is another possible lynch. Will try to do and more deep reading next morning before the beach

[brainbomb]

Bo, tell me about your scumreads

[brainbomb]

Great talk


Riveting

[thamrick]

##CALL GM

Does the witch get 2 attempts at kills with the curse or 2 actual kills?

##CALL GM ^^

[Hellenic Riot]

##GM Note:

The Witch gets two successful kills, maximum. They have as many attempts as they wish before then.

[brainbomb]

Mean is arguing from a very obvious town point if view. I dont trust that Tom is sheeping Balki. Its making me think that Balki is leading a lynch out of spite, not reason. The way mean came at Balki was confident day 1. Throwing all their pressure and effort into it. Thats not something scum do at any experience level.

I also buy the merits of what meanlaqueefa argues about Balki. So this is where I am torn. In my current reread I am toiling over if ND-Balki-Jamie all were scum. Because ND is absolutely disgusting this game with scummy posts right and left. Hes doing that obtuse jackass meta he promised to never use again from like 8 games ago. He was town using that meta tho. So... hmm.

Im at this stage now after rereads.

Town
Maniac -clear

Meanlaqueef - aggressive, and outspoken. Too headstrong to be scum

Bosox - far far better entry to day. Looks like top town

Vash - So many people want to shoot him and hes still trying to figure out what is going on. I have a feeling that Jamie voted vash and stayed on him not because it was scum on scum; but because vash was voting reedeer.

Thamrick -ive liked his responses to my pressure. I wanna move him.back into my crew.

Rjmcf - obstinate and random. To an unhealthy psychotic level. Fun though. I love him. I never know what crazy theory he has next. Also he has said some very very pro town things that cannot ever be coached.

Balki - he was semi responsible if not fully for driving ne off himself and onto jamie. Seems like a sadistic thing to do to his own scumbuddy.

Bozo- yea. Hes town. The reason is hes doing things exactly how bozo does. Pretty ineffectively. He never makes alot of sense. Always gets misrread and ends up in the POE for being bad. I still think hes town and he does occasionally have a read worth considering.

Null
Foxcastle hes really not been gamesolvy at all lately. Starting to lose faith hes town.
Dargorygel done nothing. Mostly talked about me and thats it.


Scum:

Tom - there is zero fuckin way this dude is town. Hes non aggressive, playing way too timid.
Demonrhk - contrived and overly focused on nonsense.
Reedeer - super super scummy how he landed on Jamie.
Rdrivera - Lurking. Trying to appease people and keep pressure off himself.
ND - scummy as shit. If hes town this is a pretty horrendous game

[brainbomb]

I forgot yavuz. Just gonna list yavuz as null. Hes had some sqwuaking oarrot comments that feel like hes just saying bullshit to fit in. Idk about him

[thamrick]

Mean is arguing from a very obvious town point if view. I dont trust that Tom is sheeping Balki. Its making me think that Balki is leading a lynch out of spite, not reason. The way mean came at Balki was confident day 1. Throwing all their pressure and effort into it. Thats not something scum do at any experience level.

I also buy the merits of what meanlaqueefa argues about Balki. So this is where I am torn. In my current reread I am toiling over if ND-Balki-Jamie all were scum. Because ND is absolutely disgusting this game with scummy posts right and left. Hes doing that obtuse jackass meta he promised to never use again from like 8 games ago. He was town using that meta tho. So... hmm.

Im at this stage now after rereads.

.
.
.

Rjmcf - obstinate and random. To an unhealthy psychotic level. Fun though. I love him. I never know what crazy theory he has next. Also he has said some very very pro town things that cannot ever be coached.

Balki - he was semi responsible if not fully for driving ne off himself and onto jamie. Seems like a sadistic thing to do to his own scumbuddy.

#TeamBrainbombCrew

First of all, can you point me to what you're seeing there? I'm reading every post of rjmcf's as scummy. I don't think he's the best lynch today, but I certainly don't trust him.

Second, I'm confused about your MLQ-Balki reads. You're saying you buy the merits of MLQ's case against Balki but then you're townreading Balki. Yet you're saying there's this possible weird Balki-Jamiet-ND triangle?

[brainbomb]

I buy that mean believes the things they said about Balki. Completely.

I think Mean is town who misread balki.
I think Balki is town who is annoyed and is using an irrational point if attack to lynch someone who came at him hard day 1.

However.

If theres scum in that its probably Balki. I just dont see how to resolve that today anyway, Balki is very emptional this game. His defenses and reads are very AtE.

As for Rjmcf, hes trying to figure out who to follow and how to question. Hes trying to develop a voice beyond being an annoying fly buzzing in peopkes ears. The things he says are amusing. Theyre over the top scummy. I feel like he is having fun. He seems positive, trying to learn how to be aggressive. I feel the learning curve, terminology, meta, mechanics, and overall mystery are fun for him.

When people began saying I wasnt gunsmith he made a pro town comment that I was another PR. That strikes me as a townslip. It also strikes me as something only town could say as mafia would fully know if I was a PR if they stalker scanned me. Rjmcf saying I could be a different PR leaves the door open that im still off limits to lynch. Thats an opinion he as scum wouldnt be able to go back on.

Usually scum have a code for what stalker learns. The codes posted in a qt and then stalker lists it in his first or 3rd post. Its impossible to decode as its a first letter or something hard to realize. In m16 it was the expression honey badger. When I was scum m17 our code was letters at start of third post at start of day
The letters had a meaning of what role target was.

Rjmcf is operating from a POV that protects me which is pro town. Scum would love an excuse to lynch me. If enough dumbasses clung to lynching unccd pr claims, Rj would know that maybe I was able to get lynched. Or at least he wouldve never been coached to encourage people to stay away

[brainbomb]

1. DemonRHK - WS MeanLaQueefa (his 3rd scumread)
2. Foxcastle - no answer
3. ND - no answer
4. bozotheclown -no answer
5. Ezio - no answrr
6. rdrivera2005 - no answer despite promising he would at Start of night
7. yavuzovic - WS vash
8. rjmcf - Demon or Ezio
9. Balki Bartokomous - would give all a facial then shoot dargo
10. Jamiet99uk DEAD
11. reedeer1 - WS Ezio or Rjmcf but not his top scumread rivera
12. brainbomb
13. VashtaNeurotic - wants no guns given out
14. Tom Bombadil - WS bozo or Rjmcf
15. Maniac - no answer
16. dargorygel - would shoot balki
17. thamrick WS vash or Rjmcf
18. snowy801 - no answer
19. bo_sox48 - no answer
20. MeanLaQueefa - will shoot bb
21. SuperSteve

Just for further proof tom is scum. Mean wasnt on his list. And there was no progression from this into his current vote. Maybe he decided that sheeping Balki was his best bet for how to waste our time.

Rivera never delivered on promise to say who he wouldve shot so he can die next.

[brainbomb]

Ey Tom

Tom Bombadil
Night-1 07:55
page 33 brain: I don't really see redeer as scummy, and I wonder if English is his first language. The post about voting Jamie makes sense to me - he was unsure of each wagon and picked the one where his strongest townread(s) was/were voting.

The second post about Mean playing better is certainly strange, though I don't feel alignment indicative. From looking at his points he seems rather timid - not likely to bus a scumbuddy at a pivotal point, so I view him likely town because of his vote.

So pretty sure the following are town:

snowy
ND
brain
rdrivera
redee​r.
Tom Bombadil


Night-1 07:17
page 33 What is insincere about it brain? He honestly stated that he was unsure on the top wagons and then went with the one that his highest townread was voting. Seems sincere to me - if a little vague, but that just makes my townread of reedeer stronger. His reasoning was vague, which gave him a way to justify any vote - and he voted for scum.

He seems timid, not the type of player to bus like that unless he was forced to because his reads backed him into a corner, which was clearly not the case.

Probable town:

reedeer
snowy
brain
rdrivera
​ND


Did you move snowy because he was the nk?
Was it too obvious putting him highest?

[brainbomb]

No more fuckin around

##Vote Tom
##End

[Balki Bartokomous]

Ok, Balki, you’re argument against me confirms you haven’t read my posts this entire game or don’t care about representing the truth.

I'm reading your posts very carefully. Tell me where I've made misrepresentations.

“(1) I had a town read on MLQ because I thought she was new to the game, and I’ve never seen New Scum target an active, aggressive, experienced player with a scum read on Day 1. But I did not realize that MLQ actually has a ton of experience. It sounds like she may have more experience with mafia and mafia-related games than anyone here. Based on that, the profile of what I’m looking for is different, and my reasons for reading her as town go to Null.”

I said I had irl mafia experience at the beginning of the game, though I doubt I’m the most experienced mafia player here, it should have been obvious by now to you that I had experience even if you missed my post at the beginning

You said in the sign-up thread: "I'd like to join if y'all aren't opposed to someone new to online mafia joining in. "

I remembered that. And it very much shaped my opinion of you on Day 1. If you disclosed your extensive mafia experience on Day 1, then I did not read that part closely, and it did not remove you from the "Beginner Pigeon Hole" in which my mind had already sorted you.

“(2) MLQ was very aggressive in trying to protect Jamiet Day 1. Go back and read her interactions with me on that subject. She kept using vague generalities to say “your reasons for suspecting Jamiet are crap.” And then she insisted I was scum for continuing to vote Jamiet when Jamiet was not a viable wagon. That was really odd because a lot of people had expressed suspicion at Jamiet at that point, and I thought that he was pretty obviously a viable wagon at the time, which clearly he was. Based on the Jamiet flip, I think MLQ behavior makes the most sense as scum trying to keep her partner from being a leading wagon at the end of Day 1.”

I never defended Jamie, I attacked your argument against him because it was crap, and because I thought you were scum. One thing made jamie’s lynch viable and that was him leaving out vash as a scumread when he was voting him, that’s what lead to him actually being lynched. You got lucky if you’re town or were throwing your own teammate down if you’re scum. Your argument was bad, and I still think that. I even asked you why you were voting jamie and you said:

"Eh, it's day 1. It's hard to tell who's scum. These are tonal reads, and they are fraught with error, but we have to do the best we can. I think Jamiet, Darg, and Brain are most likely to flip scum."

In other words, you didn't have reasons to back up your crap argument.

I don't think you're contradicting me at all here. I see your response, and you appear to confirm that I've described your Jamie arguments exactly correctly. My initial push on Jamiet was admittedly thin and based on tone. So what. You've played mafia before. When you are chugging along at the start of a game, a read on someone based on tone and a couple of awkward posts is about the best you can do. We're all just dealing in probabilities here. At that stage, Jamiet had the highest probability of flipping scum.

Here is my problem with your Jamiet statements: you had no substance, just colorful, determined assertions. It felt like a political hit-job advertisement, where they say "Politican X voted against puppies 17 times in the state legislature," but didn't go into any substance at all. You just asserted "your arguments are crap, and I think you're scum because you're saying stupid stuff and your arguments are crap." Let me list some examples of you doing this:

He is now pushing Jamie on trivial crap again with the same loose reasoning.

TL;DR: Balki is bad, too smart to be acting this stupid, and little town motivation for his stupid actions.

You push jamie, when everyone, even you, can agree he isn't a good lynch today. He's done nothing but be an idiot, pushing yav a bit for being confused, and then pushing lurkers. Dumb does not equal scum. He is an easy vote to push, but not a good one in the slightest.

eh maybe everyone can't agree jamie is a bad lynch today lol, things changed as I wrote that. I still think jamie isn't the best lynch here.

Your largest campaign Day 1 was to throw shade at me for pushing a Jamiet lynch. But you didn't do it by quoting my posts on Jamiet, or explaining why you thought Jamiet was Town. You continually suggested that jamiet was a "bad lynch" and arguments against him were "crap" or "stupid."

This was the sort of "nothing to see here" non-substantive defense that scum provide for their partners.

Do you really think that your Day 1 actions with respect to Jamiet don't deserve suspicion? I mean, you didn't say "NOOOO -- JAMIET'S TOWN!" But nobody would expect Scum MLQ to say that. You defended him in just the sort of lack of ownership way one would expect Scum to try to distract from a lynchworthy scumbuddy. You attacked the guy pushing a Jamiet lynch, and you called the Jamiet wagon a waste of time and non-viable.

“(3) She keeps saying I’m stupid or dumb! Over and over like a Trumpian refrain. I feel her trying to discredit me. I feel like she wants to lead, and she wants to discredit threats to that leadership.”

My entire argument against you being scum hinged on you being an intelligent player. I've said it many, many times. 90% of the questions you’ve asked in this game have had obvious answers or have already been answered elsewhere. Therefore, they’re dumb questions. That’s the crux of my bad feelings about you balki, why is somebody who appears intelligent and has a history of good play, apparently, acting like he can’t follow even basic information in the thread. You’re not paying attention. You’re actions and questions have been very stupid for a large portion of this game, and this most recent push against me tops them all, because you’ve clearly misunderstood basically everything I’ve said.

This is really odd, especially from someone who said after the flip:

Well done, honestly didn't see it. Well, I probably need to reevaluate balki now.

Like...you did something super scummy all day 1, and the flip tells us some critical information that makes that even clearer. That has impacted my view on you in a significant way. You think I'm scum for drawing that conclusion? Doesn't make sense.

* * * * *

@MLQ, I believe that you genuinely did not believe that Jamiet would be lynched Day 1, and now you are flailing. If you were Town, you would not scumread me right now. There's just no way. If you were Town MLQ, you would have more humility and less courage of your convictions after accidentally trying to save scum.

A tell-tale scum sign is an inability to reevaluate a position based on new information. That's because scum positions are not sincerely based on information, they are based on an agenda. Your position towards me remains the same despite significantly new information. It looks like it's based on an agenda.

I believe that only Scum MLQ keeps pushing on me after her theory was proved wrong.