M80 Game Thread

[brainbomb]

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... th%20a%20Z

[President Eden]

Haze has 100 posts and they have massively faded into the background for me. Not sure anyone else feels that way, but im rereading the ISO and there is really not alot here to look at.

##Vote Haze

I agree with you!

I enjoy their presence in the game but it’s light on alignment indicative content to me.

Don’t really have anything to add to that

[Jamiet99uk]

You’ve been having trouble connecting dots this game more than I remember.

Yes: I have found both Eden and brain’s posts scummier than townier.
Yes: they had an argument
Do I think it was SvS? <shrug> the disengagement of the argument seemed to read like at least one of them had decided they’d pushed it enough, done their part and was done. But that was the only part that seemed possibly SvS.

And finally: No. I honestly cannot follow your thoughts on why this is “relatively clear” you think this is an interesting thing to investigate. Please elaborate in clear kings English.

Alright.

I think it's pretty interesting that when you provided a list of three suspects, two of the people you listed had spent a considerable part of D1 having a massive argument, and yet you (a) did not appear to be thinking about whether they were connected to each other, merely scumreading them both in isolation, and then (b) when I asked you about it, you initially gave me a very dismissive one-word response, so I had to press you.

My gut instinct says "I wonder if that was a fabricated set of reads that wasn't the product of very much careful thought?".

I don’t think my reads are so perfect that I’m putting together whole teams yet. Finding anyone would be a win.

Do you honestly try to put together teams this early in the game as opposed to just getting beads on individuals?

You are missing the point.

I don't necessarily try to find teams, no. But what you did was to name two people (out of three total scumreads) who were very obviously interacting with each other in a fairly dramatic way, and yet you apparently didn't stop to think about whether their interaction was relevant to their chances of being scum.

I find this a very strange oversight.

[Jamiet99uk]

Do you imagine that town will eventually have to resolve myself, eden, bunnygo? any of those people?

you really dont want to see any of those flips?

I think it's more likely that both you and Eden are town then scum and I don'twant to push any of you today. And there is a lot of other ways to resolve people then DKIlling them (NK, scan, etc).

Bunny maybe, I am not really understanding his play.

this isnt true because scum can always self jail and they have three jails. so it could be a very long time before someone got off a scan on someone like Eden if they were worried he was likely to be cop checked.

Jailors can't jail themselves.

[Foxcastle]

were they correct?

No idea, as it was proverb someone mentioned in (I think) my first game (possibly even in the scum chat). I recall once that ghug (I think?) showed up to a game pretending to be angry that he'd rolled scum, and ended up being town. But that wasn't joking, that was a bit.

Do you have counterexamples?

Im absolutely certain that Town Maniac claimed scum once, that Town Jamie has claimed scum before, and I know for a fact that Town!Me has claimed scum on several occasions. Fluminator has done it before if I recall, in any case, it isnt good play, but it does happen. I would encourage you to read the Bona ISO, and my analysis. And at least do the due diligence on it.

Maniac, Jamie, you, and Flum are not what I would call "average" players.

That said, Bona may very well not be an average player, either, and I did read your ISO on him. I'm willing to move my vote off Bona, but I don't have strong scum reads at this point.

I have a few pages to catch up on, but at this point, I think: Bunny and Worcej are town; damo is probably town; ghug, Jamie, rdr, and brain are all kind of getting a wait-and-see pass for being veterans that I've played with a fair amount; Dousing is lurking, which is not great, but I don't think that warrants a D1 wagon; X and Sweet are probably TvT.

[Jamiet99uk]

I think it's more likely that both you and Eden are town then scum and I don'twant to push any of you today. And there is a lot of other ways to resolve people then DKIlling them (NK, scan, etc).

Bunny maybe, I am not really understanding his play.

this isnt true because scum can always self jail and they have three jails. so it could be a very long time before someone got off a scan on someone like Eden if they were worried he was likely to be cop checked.

Jailors can't jail themselves.

Oh wait you mean one scum jailor could jail another member of the scum team. Ok. I wouldn't describe that as "self jailing" but I guess I take your meaning.

[pyxxy]

actually yeah this works pretty well

scum can't drive to fool the Watch power because then the watcher just reports back who the driver was and EzChop

get rekt scum

if worcej is truly outed then he just uses whatever power he thinks is best, plays the WIFOM game, and reports back to the thread if he lives

actually maybe this is something I would want to talk to worcej about

I think it is mandatory, worcej, that you use one of your powers tonight. No need to out your role, no need to say which power. But we need you to (if town) maximize your usefulness while alive or (if scum) feed us fake info that lets us chop you later on

TLDR:
Pirate Captain should probably watch worcej tonight
rest of PRs should probably leave worcej alone to force scum into WIFOM
worcej must use a power tonight in case he lives

open to feedback on this analysis

my feedback is that this is boring and i couldn't finish it

##VOTE Bona

[Jamiet99uk]

I understood your stances. I presented them as you did. And then I took issue with each one and explained why I have issues with them. I also took issue with your reads list, and how you were updating it, and who you were moving around on it.

No you didn’t. You cherrypicked what you wanted to see, either out of conscious manipulation or an inability to read in context.

Ample past experience with you tells me that there is no point to engaging with you rationally because even when I am perfectly rational, neutral, and fair to you, like the Panhandlin game, you twist what I say to fit your incessant need to be a victim. You are not worth dealing with and I regret not withdrawing my name from the list of players when I saw you sign up

Eden, don't get upset. If Brainbomb is really bothering you this much, just ignore his posts for a while.

I often do that with Bona.

[President Eden]

I understood your stances. I presented them as you did. And then I took issue with each one and explained why I have issues with them. I also took issue with your reads list, and how you were updating it, and who you were moving around on it.

No you didn’t. You cherrypicked what you wanted to see, either out of conscious manipulation or an inability to read in context.

Ample past experience with you tells me that there is no point to engaging with you rationally because even when I am perfectly rational, neutral, and fair to you, like the Panhandlin game, you twist what I say to fit your incessant need to be a victim. You are not worth dealing with and I regret not withdrawing my name from the list of players when I saw you sign up

Eden, don't get upset. If Brainbomb is really bothering you this much, just ignore his posts for a while.

I often do that with Bona.

I recognize you’re still catching up so I will withhold comment until you’re done. I think brain and I are in a functional arrangement for the moment

[Jamiet99uk]

Can town Bunnyvoters please move off him, he is very unlikely scum. Scum (if any) can stay.

Could you expound upon your analysis in this regard, Daemo?

It's already been said. His hounding of Saucey is an unlikely scumplay.

You like looking for pairs.

What do you make of BunnyGo manifestly ignoring the Brainbomb vs Eden drama, whilst naming both of them in his list of three scumreads?

[damo666]

I'm voting Bona and Eden is in my towncore. This is not new news.

[Foxcastle]

TLDR for everybody that isn't X:

X really hates questions. They'll say things that imply questions that they want addressed, but asking a question is not something they generally like to do, even if you request them to clarify what you want from them.

Interpret any way you like, but so far the energy they've spent on me has been an exercise in futility that definitely makes them look busy while being incredibly unproductive. They may have a point that me being self-aware is weird (actually, I don't really get it, but other people like Foxcastle for example do, so I guess it's a thing), but they really haven't followed up with any substantial content.

I'm scumreading them big time, because they definitely believe that producing content and looking busy is important work for Mafia, and it's something they have been doing masterfully. They are capable of much better, and I think we would have seen that if they were town.

Please, ##VOTE Xcution , and rid us of someone who is much more likely to be Mafia than not.

I don't hate questions and that's just treating my slot in bad faith. I ask questions, but that's not really the main way I play the game; I crave dialogue and interaction. I think my example that I gave you in my wallie fits best, I'll call someone an asshole and expect them to respond while you are expecting someone to ask you why you are an asshole and then you'll respond.

Why do you get to determine if how I spend my energy is futile or not? I had a problem with your slot, I went after it, and I finally got a response; this has given me a large amount of information now to help me determine your slot; this hasn't been futile for me at all. The whole time I've done this with you, I have tried to interact with other slots (you even called me out for how I handle Jamie) and I've also read the entire thread and have thoughts on other players based on that. I don't think it's fair at all for you to call me effort futile when I'm advancing my OWN reads in the game. Has it been unhelpful to you and others? Maybe, but that's also not my problem or focus, I'm trying to solve the game for ME.

Okay, this is kind of bull shit because you have no idea how I'd at as either alignment and you saying 'I'd do better as town' is you holding me to YOUR expectations of what I should do or how I should play (something I think Elden tried to call me out on for what I was doing with your slot). I don't give a fuck about producing content because there have been games, as either alignment, where I'm much more quiet and don't go into as much detail and wallies. Your wolf read on me comes down to you thinking I'm being unproductive and wasting time and that i could 'do better', all expectations that you have created and not something that always fits everyone.

Dude, I followed the mafia champs game and I know town X can do better than this.

I confess I have been skimming a lot of you and X's posts when it comes this feud, so maybe I missed you mentioning it before, but it seems like your assessment of X's play in the mafia champs game should have come up earlier than this. (Maybe I'm just biased for relying a lot on comparison of previous play...)

[Jamiet99uk]

This question is for ghug, Jamie, and damo
what is your reads on Bona and Eden

I think Bona is hard to read because I find reading his dribble annoying.
His wagon partly happened because of his outright scum-claim.

I find it almost impossible to believe that you and Eden are both scum. I am trying to work out whether or not I think that scum!Eden could fabricate his responses to you. My gut says that his emotions were real. I am inclined to town-lean him as it stands. I don't think President Eden is a good wagon today.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm voting Bona and Eden is in my towncore. This is not new news.

Well that definitely isn't what I asked you.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm voting Bona and Eden is in my towncore. This is not new news.

Well that definitely isn't what I asked you.

Oh, sorry, you were replying to Braincomb.

[damo666]

Could you expound upon your analysis in this regard, Daemo?

It's already been said. His hounding of Saucey is an unlikely scumplay.

You like looking for pairs.

What do you make of BunnyGo manifestly ignoring the Brainbomb vs Eden drama, whilst naming both of them in his list of three scumreads?

He had them in a list of a number of people he was prepared to vote for. It doesn't follow that he thinks they are all scum.

I don't think it's as big a deal as you make out.

[damo666]

I'm voting Bona and Eden is in my towncore. This is not new news.

Well that definitely isn't what I asked you.

That was a response to brainbum

[Foxcastle]

When did "towncore" become a thing people do here? I think it's a bad idea and you shouldn't stop assessing someone because you added them to your towncore.

[pyxxy]

anyway, I can’t fathom town bozo looking at my d1 and going “yep that’s the same guy I just played scum with last game.”

Obviously I’m capable of mixing up my style, but I at least can’t appreciate any tactical value that might have been gained by me getting in this fight as scum, and it doesn’t even look like bozo asked himself that question. he just saw a controversial flash point that could be used to justify a vote and went with it

##VOTE bozotheclown

I find Eden towny for putting a vote on this post, unless somehow Eden/Bona is s/s.

[damo666]

When did "towncore" become a thing people do here? I think it's a bad idea and you shouldn't stop assessing someone because you added them to your towncore.

I use it just to mean strong townread.