M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

[Hamilton Brian]

What is apparent to me is that, even if rivera is mafia, there's mafia sitting on that wagon.

For all we know, there might even be two.

I think that's why I say to slow it down.

[KoalaAttack]

Hamilton Brian – would you please actually respond to this which you skipped over:

I know I am muddying the waters right now, and it's a shitty thing to do as town, but also given my loathing of hammers/ends in general...the uncertainty is killing me.

We're running on "vibes" like an ex-girlfiend of mine liked to run on fumes. She has a hell of a model tank collection. Didn't occur to me that she wasn't only in it because she was a history buff.

I know my gut has been off about this game, but there's things that just aren't adding up to me.

I don't understand the meaning of the ex-girlfriend reference after the "vibes" bit – but I think your overall sentiment is uncertainty.

I certainly feel very uncertain. I suspect everyone, I am just going with a forced-stack-ranking of whom I suspect more vs less. As well as which flip I feel would be most informative for the town.

Well – do you have a better / stronger alternative theory case that is based on something more concrete than "vibes"? I would be interested to hear it. (And your rationale of not sharing it sooner if you did have one of course.)

[Hamilton Brian]

No.

[Hamilton Brian]

@Koala, I don't have any substantial read or case.

However I've gone down a flum-damo-rivera rabbithole today, and nothing is any clearer.

[Fluminator]

Considering all options is good Brian, but I'm not scum lol.

And the more rdr evades this thread, the more confident I am he's just dropping off to not risk incriminating the final scum.

[KoalaAttack]

OK, thank you – in that case, can you please elaborate why, given this was your Suspect List last night:

I've been very disengaged during this phase. I've also trashed a lot of my reads after I was so wrong on Bona. The list is in descending order, and Rivera to Bozo are all on the similar tier. I just can't determine/sense anything and I fucked up what should have been a good informative day with my mishandling of the vote.

I'm not getting killed. There's definitely 3 players I could see getting launched out of here on N2.

Again, apologies to town for yesterday.

Koala: was thinking that no way with this play style be carried forth by mafia. It’s too divisive and becomes the distraction that mafia avoids to go deep. Now, I am really uncertain.

Rivera: There’s been engagement, there’s been reads. But I don’t know if I am falling prey to the noise/narrative that’s being pushed or what.

Worcej. Where I would have put them as definite Mafia, I am heavily, doubting that opinion now. I think I, and others, have talked me out of it. And I am sure it's all down to my own ego and hubris.

Jamie. On notes I had about Bona, I had mentioned something along the line of “ if Bona is mafia, then Jamie shouldn’t be on account of the day one vote.” obviously we know that the first part is not born out, but I do not know its impact on the second part. I believe Jamie to be an exceptional player and can play effectively as either alignment. I’ve seen the passion, but I’ve also observed a hyper focus that might indicate playing “gotcha” on certain things that might not be helpful in solving the game.

Bozo. I would’ve assumed that they're town but I don’t have the strongest feeling. I do suspect anyone that would follow me on an argument I’ve made about somebody. Especially when that argument is so poorly thought out and explain. That to me would arouse suspicion.

Flum: has put themselves out there in a way that suggests, “Nah, mafia would not draw the attention like that.” The PR/information claim for one stands out.

Damo. Saw some things on day one that would lead me to consider them town. I think the voting was a key component.

Hamilton Brian. Obviously town and reliable to make big mistakes.

You just suddenly went on Flum? I mean, I get all your doubts. But it's a big sudden swing, no?

I mean, you could say "because Damo was an unexpected NK" but you had Damo as even more-Townie than Flum on your list, so I don't see how that NK would have really changed it that much.

Why aren't you making a case on, I don't know, me who is your top Suspect?


I am a little Suspicious of you essentially saying you have many doubts (fair enough) and that sharing non-constructive doubts is bad for the town (fair enough, and I agree) and then proceeding to share non-constructive doubts anyway (!?!?!?) ... Are you the Misdirector who is trying to get the most mileage out of it while rdrivera is the Deep Threat?

[Hamilton Brian]

Considering all options is good Brian, but I'm not scum lol.

And the more rdr evades this thread, the more confident I am he's just dropping off to not risk incriminating the final scum.

That final part does seem to ring somewhat true.

Killing him today without a competing wagon doesn't necessarily give us better information. All we'll know is that 1 or 2 mafia are also on that wagon.

So maybe we play jamie's course and make it rivera vs bozo.

##VOTE bozo

[Jamiet99uk]

Considering all options is good Brian, but I'm not scum lol.

And the more rdr evades this thread, the more confident I am he's just dropping off to not risk incriminating the final scum.

That final part does seem to ring somewhat true.

Killing him today without a competing wagon doesn't necessarily give us better information. All we'll know is that 1 or 2 mafia are also on that wagon.

So maybe we play jamie's course and make it rivera vs bozo.

##VOTE bozo

The man who battled to save Bozo yesterday will vote him today.

Cool!

I may move to Bozo. I want to hear from Rdrivera.

[Hamilton Brian]

@Koala, lots of questions in there so I'll answer in a way that I feel addresses the tone and not necessarily the minutiae.

Regarding you, I felt you were town for enough time that I slipped over you.

With regard to my sharing of my "doubts," I put my train of thought out there, as I try to construct, so that someone else who is actually reading me thinks, "hey, interesting thoughts, let's explore it further." Just how I play.

[Hamilton Brian]

The man who battled to save Bozo yesterday will vote him today.

Cool!

I may move to Bozo. I want to hear from Rdrivera.

The fucking irony.

[Jamiet99uk]

The man who battled to save Bozo yesterday will vote him today.

Cool!

I may move to Bozo. I want to hear from Rdrivera.

The fucking irony.

OK.

##VOTE BOZO

[rdrivera2005]

Considering all options is good Brian, but I'm not scum lol.

And the more rdr evades this thread, the more confident I am he's just dropping off to not risk incriminating the final scum.

I am not evading the thread, I am just buried at work.

[Jamiet99uk]

Considering all options is good Brian, but I'm not scum lol.

And the more rdr evades this thread, the more confident I am he's just dropping off to not risk incriminating the final scum.

I am not evading the thread, I am just buried at work.

You're the top wagon.

Any quick comments?

[Fluminator]

Are you VT?

[Fluminator]

When are you off work?

[rdrivera2005]

I don't know how to deal with this. I tried to be more subtle then last game but it didn't work well.

I hardclaim Doc again. I tried to save Flum N1 (Carma based) and don't think I should disclose my N2 target for obvious reasons.

[Fluminator]

ok, if you're a real doc don't claim yet, I have a big post coming.
Just in the middle of work

[Fluminator]

Actually I'll just ask a followup question.

Are you just a doc? Is there no other component to your role?

[rdrivera2005]

Actually I'll just ask a followup question.

Are you just a doc? Is there no other component to your role?

Nope. Regular doc, can target myself but cant target same player on consecutive nights.

[Fluminator]

Ok,
I hardclaim PR

And the interesting part about it is I am a conditional PR which means certain things have to happen for me to get my power.
I think town has got incredibly lucky no PRs have flipped yet so mafia haven't learned the PRs are conditional yet.

This is assuming I'm not the only conditional PR but it would be really weird to me if there was only one.