MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[Balki Bartokomous]

Throwing this out there now: I wasn’t RB’ed, so my gut is the scum roles are the Ninja, strongarm, and fake doctor role

If I were scum, I’d be much more worried about Tracker and Watcher than Doctor though. I probably wouldn’t RB the Doctor there even if I could, especially while killing a non-PR claimer who was a somewhat unlikely save target.

[BunnyGo]

I'll work out for you what happens if bo does come back and claim PR:

Then we have 4 PR claimants, and only 3 Actual PRs.

3 of us are telling the truth, and at most one is lying.

So from your POV, at most 1 of worcej, me, and bo can be scum (no matter what bo claims).

[worcej]

Correction to my reason (1) Strongman should be Toughguy.

Possible. I just assumed they would also save it for me whenever they want because it can avoid having to play save-chicken with me

[KoalaAttack]

So to summarize my understanding – I see the current reasoning, and the implied 2 assumptions supporting it are:

(1) no PR in their right mind would ever claim VT in the mass-claim scenario
(2) Bo will claim VT

Correct?

Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

[damo666]

A non-specfic PR claimant voting another non-specific PR claimant when there are only 3 PR claimants is bizarre in the extreme.

I don't understand. It's only bizarre in the extreme if you believe everyone's claims, no? But aren't at least 3 claims lies, like, by definition?

I mean, if you just believe the claims, I seriously don't get how this game works. Say I am Mafia next time – why wouldn't I just hardclaim Doctor ASAP? I think I'm missing something here.

Yes, three claims are lies and they lie within the vt claimants. There are three town PRs and 3 claimants (possibly 4 if you include bo) so a max of 1 scum there. No town would have lied, it would be to town's disadvantage.

[KoalaAttack]

So to summarize my understanding – I see the current reasoning, and the implied 2 assumptions supporting it are:

(1) no PR in their right mind would ever claim VT in the mass-claim scenario
(2) Bo will claim VT

Correct?

Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

And a (perhaps stupid) question to the group – is Assumption (1) reasonable to make based on your prior Mafia experience? It certainly makes sense to me, just want to double-check that practice matches the theory.

[BunnyGo]

So to summarize my understanding – I see the current reasoning, and the implied 2 assumptions supporting it are:

(1) no PR in their right mind would ever claim VT in the mass-claim scenario
(2) Bo will claim VT

Correct?

Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

Even better...we let scum figure out the lying PR for us. They don't want to leave PRs alive. So we find the 2 (but really 3) scum in the VT pool for today.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

And a (perhaps stupid) question to the group – is Assumption (1) reasonable to make based on your prior Mafia experience? It certainly makes sense to me, just want to double-check that practice matches the theory.

Yes. Assumption (1) is reasonable and the right assumption to make.

[BunnyGo]

Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

And a (perhaps stupid) question to the group – is Assumption (1) reasonable to make based on your prior Mafia experience? It certainly makes sense to me, just want to double-check that practice matches the theory.

Let's play out what happens in that case. Say (for example) that damo is really a PR.

Now in a day or so we start voting him. He announces "No no! *I'm* really the watcher after all!" Who will believe him? We'll kill him for sure that day. Then we get a miskill we can't afford. AND for the previous time we've been working with bad assumptions as a group.

[KoalaAttack]

Great, makes perfect sense. Cheers. Temporary

##vote bo_sox48

until such time that Bo contributes their claim.

[BunnyGo]

Throwing this out there now: I wasn’t RB’ed, so my gut is the scum roles are the Ninja, strongarm, and fake doctor role

If I were scum, I’d be much more worried about Tracker and Watcher than Doctor though. I probably wouldn’t RB the Doctor there even if I could, especially while killing a non-PR claimer who was a somewhat unlikely save target.

Why leave the doctor alive at all?

[Chaqa]

This is an exhausting conversation to read.

All three of you are PRs.

Worcej is Doctor.
Koala is a totally mysterious role
Bunny is ???

Unless bo comes in CCing, we don't need to worry about this.

[Chaqa]

Welp, feels embarassing to crosspost that with you guys wrapping it up. lmao

[BunnyGo]

Throwing this out there now: I wasn’t RB’ed, so my gut is the scum roles are the Ninja, strongarm, and fake doctor role

If I were scum, I’d be much more worried about Tracker and Watcher than Doctor though. I probably wouldn’t RB the Doctor there even if I could, especially while killing a non-PR claimer who was a somewhat unlikely save target.

Why leave the doctor alive at all?

Fear of watcher!chaqa?

[damo666]

Ditto my unnecessary post. Hadn't read all the explanations.

[damo666]

If I were scum, I’d be much more worried about Tracker and Watcher than Doctor though. I probably wouldn’t RB the Doctor there even if I could, especially while killing a non-PR claimer who was a somewhat unlikely save target.

Why leave the doctor alive at all?

Fear of watcher!chaqa?

Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.

[BunnyGo]

Why leave the doctor alive at all?

Fear of watcher!chaqa?

Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.

My last post at night sort of addressed this:

If watcher!chaqa and worcej targeted each other, one of them was guaranteed to succeed.

[KoalaAttack]

Why leave the doctor alive at all?

Fear of watcher!chaqa?

Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.

Again, sorry if this is naive because I'm new, but:

But the mass claim business happened after the night was over. So during the night they would only have a maybe-Watcher maybe-protected by a maybe-Doctor and/or maybe-watching the maybe-Doctor.

And wouldn't the WIFOM approach be "let them waste the mutual Watching/Healing on each other while we take out someone else?"

[damo666]

Fear of watcher!chaqa?

Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.

My last post at night sort of addressed this:

If watcher!chaqa and worcej targeted each other, one of them was guaranteed to succeed.

but worcej was scumreading Chaqa? He'd hardly save him.

[BunnyGo]

Fear of watcher!chaqa?

Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.

Again, sorry if this is naive because I'm new, but:

But the mass claim business happened after the night was over. So during the night they would only have a maybe-Watcher maybe-protected by a maybe-Doctor and/or maybe-watching the maybe-Doctor.

And wouldn't the WIFOM approach be "let them waste the mutual Watching/Healing on each other while we take out someone else?"

excellent reasoning. That's roughly what I'm arguing too.

If that argument is what really happened, then Chaqa is town because scum would not know he was lying.

There's another reason that damo is advocating for (reasonably): Chaqa is scum, and so scum COULDN'T target him, and if they HAD targeted worcej, we'd all say "CHAQA CHAQA, WHAT'D YOU SEE?!?!"