M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3141 Post by wolfu » Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:04 pm

i may have gotten lost in the weeds here

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3142 Post by wolfu » Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:27 pm

pyx - why were you fake crumbing commuter to draw a NK, when that is a role the mafia are typically going to want to avoid shooting at?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3143 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:44 pm

damo666 wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:07 am
damo666 wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:04 am
@pyxxy

Why has scumbo never attempted to NK townpyxxy?
I believe this to be unanswerable and the nail in your coffin dear pyxxy.

I appreciate Wolfu taking his time and wanting to be sure and I admire the amount of effort pyxxy is putting in in the circumstances. Wel done!

However the game is up. We just wait on Wolfu to pull the trigger.
Okay here during lunch.

Here's my best attempt at a summary of how I view the peculiar situation of me being still alive.

1) I'm useful to scum!bo / scum!bona to keep around because I've been fairly useless as a confirmed town.
- D1, I inadvertently help tip the wagons towards worcej instead of scum!bona
- D2, I fail to push any kind of a case on bo while also voting bozo for a good chunk of the day
- D3, this is my best day but it's literally only thanks to brain giving me the scan and scum!rumi making me aware that demon was acting weird, like I didn't actually do any real town investigative work, I just got lucky twice
- D4, I pushed scumreads on you and wolfu, and while I eventually listened to y'all about bona, I was really still tunneling wolfu
(also remember that bo voted for rdr!! when it was tied 2-2 between you and bona!! @damo)
- D5, more wolfu tunnel
- N5, yeah it's a night but my VCA post where I basically conf town you and wolfu was probably the actual best town contribution that I've had so far

I have been fairly clearly incapable to helping town in any significant way outside of my scan.

Consider my situation in contrast to darg's. darg was a conf town _PR_. I'm a conf vanilla town who got a scan from brain. darg has to die after his double vote proved that he was alive (and also bc doc was already dead so no risk of a save). I have to die _if_ I'm actually helping town, which clearly hasn't been the case :/
Maybe I'm wrong about this because I've never been scum in a game yet, but this is how I view the situation.

2) Next, consider everyone else who has died _after darg_.

bozo, rdr, and now celaph are all pretty good players imo (despite any criticisms that bo might have for rdr). Good _and_ probably experienced with scum!bo.

bozo was clearing trying to organize and lead town, and after demon's fake scan claim failed, bozo would have been a conf town leader and gotten bona killed the next day. He had to go.

rdr was scumreading bo on N4:
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:11 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:31 pm
[edited for length]
I don't really care if you think I should be miskilled. Very few other people seem to have any issue townreading me based on several factors that they have laid out clearly, and you laid out some of those reasons yourself yesterday but forgot about them the moment that I recirculated by scum-has-a-lurker theory and voted for you. Stop playing that way.
First of all, I don't think you should be misskilled, I think you are scum.

Second, I don't think my play is unefecttive. Last game I identified both Snowy and you because the way you both tried to set me up. I also identified Bona as scum based on simple vote analysis logic, which you seem unable to understand and just kept saying "why Bona voted for a PR claimant" which is not a towny tell in any way. So, maybe you should reflect about your play if you are town.

Third, who said you are obviously town? Your only towny moment was that emotional outburst, but it can be easily done as annoyed scum too. And the fact you seem to be getting a pass worries me, because I think I might be NKed or shot tonight.
Celaph was open to voting bo on D5 and was going to re-read bo:
celaph wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:05 am
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:57 pm
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:53 pm
i think sabi asking to vote first on demon was performative, neon was clearly being stubborn by refusing to unvote and sabi only posted once or twice, it wasn't like they were fightig likehell with neon to do it - and then they voted demon anyway to enable the hammer. so i don't think that is clearing
I still need to re-read Sabi, but right now I still stick with the obvious. Bo give the chance for Demon to hammer and was tryng to avoid a Bona kill yesterday. He also avoided voting Bona D1 tryng to jump on my wagon. Please don't give him a pass to him if I am not around tomorrow.
Sounds like Bo is worth a read too!
celaph wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:11 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:17 pm
I wouldn’t have killed rdr, it’s way too fun to constantly beat him and his baseless arguments
You know this is a meaningless argument.
celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:19 am
I feel like my read on Sabi is hurting from a lack of obvious explanations for their takes. There is certainly things to raise an eyebrow at here, but I want to hear more from them.

In the mean time, ##vote bo because he's next on my to read list and I like mixing it up. Would love to hear people's takes on Bo.
celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:20 am
Also, from listening to other people it sounds like Pyxxy is conf town or very close to it. Damo is town in most people's eyes except Sabi. I'm town though I'm not entirely sure why.
Celaph did vote for sabi after bo but it wasn't out of strong convictions:
celaph wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:52 pm
Switching to vote ##vote Sabi because ties bad and I'm struggling to understand their motives (yes I know that they're tied up running a diplo tournament; sorry to hear that out of game things are impacting the game).
Celaph didn't post at all during N5, which is pretty normal for celaph.

So in my tinfoil hat mind, scum!bo tries to kill celaph before celaph can post anything from his re-read that might make bo look bad. It fails because celaph is commuter. But bo (and I) know that celaph can be afk for long periods of time, so bo sits on the day vig to see what happens next.

Re-read this sequence:
celaph wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:02 pm
I'll be on later tonight, but as mafia know my role I might as well claim.

I'm the commuter. 8-)
bo_sox48 wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:18 pm
ayyy
Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:22 pm
A shot rings out!

Celaph has died. He was the WINGED KOBOLD
- Celaph posts, it's short with no solving, but he promises to be on _later_
- bo is online and reacts
- tinfoil: scum!bo decides that he has to force the issue and can't let celaph distract from bo's wallpost case against me
- scum!bo dms chaqa to shoot celaph
- 4 minutes and 5 seconds later, celaph dies

bo has eliminated the people who are most experienced in both webdip mafia _and_ with his scum game and left the least experienced with his scum game (wolfu) + the least towny-behaved (damo) + the least skilled (myself, pyxxy) people alive.

Summarizing both points:

1) I might be confirmed town, but I'm quite bad at scumhunting and haven't pushed bo since D2, so I'm not actually helping town solve the game in a way that threatens bo. I'm also a conf VT _in bo's mind_ as well as in the actual game, because remember when EON N5 happened, his poe for commuter didn't include me.

2) bo prioritized killing people that 1) were confirmed town PRs (rip darg), 2) that could actually lead town to solving the game and finding bona/bo (rip bozo), 3) and that could recognize his scum game (rdr, celaph).

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3144 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:47 pm

wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:00 pm
rumi naming bona/damo/demon as scumleans is pretty cracked if that's the team, lmfao

i could see it coming from a new/inexperienced scum who doesn't realize you're not supposed to just bus your entire team


her pivot to defending damo from Riot is weird

later hedge on damo at the start of day 3 can easily be partnered though

but then there's the suggestion to hammer damo outright which seems out of left field if mafia and the later interactions with him about his read of demon...don't feel scum/scum to me
I'm not going to tell you not to review damo but consider that D1 damo sat on bona all day. Also I'm pretty sure damo is town re: my VCA last night.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3145 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:58 pm

wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:27 pm
pyx - why were you fake crumbing commuter to draw a NK, when that is a role the mafia are typically going to want to avoid shooting at?
This is again how I thought about the setup. Like I said, I really like the mech part of mafia. When I read the setup and was introduced to a lot of new roles (h/t mafiascum wiki), I spent some time thinking about the game theory around when the commuter should be using their uses, since this setup they only get 2.

In my mind, crimson/Ike/Celaph did the bravest but also the most "optimal" thing as commuter. Try and save your uses until late game when you are more likely to dodge a NK (if NK were random, which they are not, but the math still somewhat holds true imo?).

If it's the "best" strategy for the commuter to hold their uses for late in the game, then they're going to be just as vulnerable as the average VT during the first few days, but later on (ignoring day vig complications) the commuter turns into a pseudo-deathproof role where scum can't risk attempting the NK but also can't get them DK'd without a 1-1 trade.

So I would think that when scum are PR hunting in the first few days, commuter is a role that they would value equally for a NK, but which would taper off after the first 2-3 nights. Actually yeah after N2 I would think you would want to avoid the commuter just in case, and try to get them to burn their uses out of fear.

And I don't think I explicitly said this but I implied it when I explained why I stopped fake crumbing, but I planned to keep fake crumbing for another day and probably another night, because with the doctor gone, scum would feel even safer to try and NK the commuter, maybe?

This is of course a mind game between scum and the (fake, because it's me) commuter. Am I (fake) crumbing to draw scum attention and then using my power to dodge an early NK, because it's the best time for scum to snipe me?

To use a phrase I was taught on here, it's WIFOM. But yeah that's why I was cool with fake crumbing commuter. It was the least risky town role to fake crumb imo, and also I never planned to fake claim, that would be extremely stupid and get me killed. The whole damo and you thinking I was the commuter situation is a lesson for next time to be more clear with my words and also maybe to not do dumb things like this.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3146 Post by wolfu » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:02 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:47 pm
wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:00 pm
rumi naming bona/damo/demon as scumleans is pretty cracked if that's the team, lmfao

i could see it coming from a new/inexperienced scum who doesn't realize you're not supposed to just bus your entire team


her pivot to defending damo from Riot is weird

later hedge on damo at the start of day 3 can easily be partnered though

but then there's the suggestion to hammer damo outright which seems out of left field if mafia and the later interactions with him about his read of demon...don't feel scum/scum to me
I'm not going to tell you not to review damo but consider that D1 damo sat on bona all day. Also I'm pretty sure damo is town re: my VCA last night.
/shrug i've seen scum do that idle bus routine before and it's not like he was agitating for it, so it doesn't strike me as outright impossible, but i might be overly paranoid

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3147 Post by wolfu » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:03 pm

okay, pyx, now that you're here - you had the cop scan night 2 and used it on demon, yeah?

why did you not post the result of your scan right away on day 3?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3148 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:06 pm

##CALL GM
bit of a weird one, but it matters to me :)

For the Bard, if they visit and roleblock someone during the night, does the person who was roleblocked get a PM i.e. "During the night, you were roleblocked." ?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3149 Post by Chaqa » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:14 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:06 pm
##CALL GM
bit of a weird one, but it matters to me :)

For the Bard, if they visit and roleblock someone during the night, does the person who was roleblocked get a PM i.e. "During the night, you were roleblocked." ?
##GM Note: yes.
2

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3150 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:17 pm

wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:03 pm
okay, pyx, now that you're here - you had the cop scan night 2 and used it on demon, yeah?

why did you not post the result of your scan right away on day 3?
I was traveling
pyxxy wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:10 am
I bought plane wifi for…this :neutral:
I think I was checking the game during boarding? Stayed online through EON, saw that I wasn't NK'd, then saw darg get shoot (re: so I was misremembering in my post just about about bo NKs, btw) and was like wtf. I do think I at least remembered to check my webdip PMs since I knew now that chaqa would give me the result through them. Idr if posting PMs is against the rules but it looks like "you scan demon and he is GUILTY"

And then the scan is clearly going to turn into a whole thing, see me on D2:
pyxxy wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:28 pm
RagingIke297 wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:13 pm
We've been on mobile this whole time baby, just gotta use the preview to make sure it looks good
If I do serious typing on my phone I get elbow pain. Someone diagnose me please. I think it's ulnar stuff but idk.
can't do mobile so I just logged off until the plane was in the air and I could pay $5 for the wifi to satisfy my sick need for an internet forum game

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3151 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:26 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:14 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:06 pm
##CALL GM
bit of a weird one, but it matters to me :)

For the Bard, if they visit and roleblock someone during the night, does the person who was roleblocked get a PM i.e. "During the night, you were roleblocked." ?
##GM Note: yes.
Oh.

Then I really have no idea why bo thought I was a Bard.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3152 Post by wolfu » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:28 pm

okay

it's still a bit confusing to me you made...6 posts and had enough words to react to rumi's breakdown but didn't claim the guilty then and there, yeah?

like that would be one of the first things on my mind, personally

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3153 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:34 pm

wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:28 pm
okay

it's still a bit confusing to me you made...6 posts and had enough words to react to rumi's breakdown but didn't claim the guilty then and there, yeah?

like that would be one of the first things on my mind, personally
maybe I'm misremembering or maybe I went to the wrong spot in the bot but I think, yes? you are correct?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3154 Post by wolfu » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:54 pm

not sure i'm getting through here

what i'm saying is i realize you had limited time and couldn't type much but i'm not sure how HEY EVERYONE I HAVE A GUILTY was not the first thing on your mind when you opened the thread? did you think it could wait several hours until you landed?

on another subject i guess - when you were accusing me of my argument with bona looking like scum theater - have you seen scum arguing like that in your previous games?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3155 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:56 pm

finally responding to bo's wallpost then back to work for me:

- idk why he thinks I'm Bard

- "which pyxxy knew, though the rest of us didn’t"
the only person who didn't switch votes off darg was bona

- "This pyxxy player is widely townread, and playing well, through the end of night 1"
Literally you D1, bo
bo_sox48 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:26 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:02 pm
Also I'm in a bit of a "let the lurkers live a little" phase because it's been wrong in M75 and M1021, which sure is maybe a little more of the gambler's fallacy (trying to nail 1 scum lurking in 3 people is going to miss 2 out of 3 times).

But like I agreed with worcej earlier, I agree with the idea that scum are more likely to be more active because of the N0.
Sorry for missing these.

I disagree with pretty much everything you’ve said here but most of it is philosophical so I’ll just say you’re wrong and let it be.

As for not pressuring rdrivera and explicitly noting that you won’t pressure rdrivera because he couldn’t handle pressure in a prior game, that is some bullshit. If he’s too busy to play he just won’t reply - who cares?

##VOTE pyxxy
In what world was a town read and in what world was I playing well in your eyes?

- "What matters is that in this scenario, the scumteam is not actually brainless - they did not sacrifice one of them for a VT - but actually they’re quite genius. How convenient it is that pyxxy got a scan … on Demon?"
Yeah I mean your entire case and my entire townieness boils down to if you believe that I would scan demon N2.

I put what I think was my short list in my response to damo. But idk, I feel like scanning the guy acting weird, being a dick, and who is killing the game thread is the obvious choice?

- "coming off a surprising modkill that handicapped the mafia in a way they probably didn’t expect or deserve"
Or deserve, eh? I guess we feel differently about Rumi's abusing the rules

- "the scumteam needs their two strongest players to survive"
I'm going to assume you mean strongest as in demon was a goner, because I can't believe that you would compliment me for anything.

- "Having missed an opportunity to send one of their players lurking in the shadows from early on they need one."
Or it's been you all along. It's not like I started lurking after guiltying demon.

- "none of the three ever bussed pyxxy"
But you have voted for me, yes siree, so far back as D1 8-)

- "This post contains a lot of knowledge of Bona’s actions without ever uttering their name prior to this post."
???? bona literally kept voting darg after his claim

I gotta get back to work can't deal with the last third but

"In the event I die momentarily, it’s because I made a mindless reference to this coming case"
lol yeah okay, or you were just trying to inoculate town against any case that I might present against you :razz:

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3156 Post by pyxxy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:02 pm

wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:54 pm
not sure i'm getting through here

what i'm saying is i realize you had limited time and couldn't type much but i'm not sure how HEY EVERYONE I HAVE A GUILTY was not the first thing on your mind when you opened the thread? did you think it could wait several hours until you landed?

on another subject i guess - when you were accusing me of my argument with bona looking like scum theater - have you seen scum arguing like that in your previous games?
oh I think I get you now

because I've watched webdip flash wagon people for stupid reasons, see: how sabi dies in most games (you're different you made a real case)

also I've never had a scan nor been a PR before (besides the cop game where I got DK'd D1) so idk what the procedure is here, something something "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the--- I mean until they get a guilty scan for realsies"

+ being on mobile, also I think I was being unclear, I planned for plane wifi I just knew there would be some period of time between boarding and cruising altitude where I would be offline

I think scum!sabi and scum!TheFlyingBoat fought like this in M1021 but idk exactly when https://mafia.peterlund.se/m1021/

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3157 Post by wolfu » Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:01 pm

okay. i askin because this is the post you made when outing the check:
pyxxy wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:59 am
I'm caught up from where I got pissed off and went and watch youtube for the rest of the flight.

It's past 2:00am for me (later addition: when I started writing this) and I've been awake for almost 20 hours. So I'm not confident. But this game is already such a shit show that if this is a mistake then so be it. Also I half expected to be shot by now. But I think scum is still holding out hope that the real commuter cc's Demon.

Brain gave me the scan (scrying stone) N1 and I scanned Demon N2 and he's guilty as fuck.
(later addition: actually I had to double check my pm, and it doesn't say who I got it from, just describes the item. more on this near the bottom of this post)
and my immediate takeaway is: i'm not sure why you were concerned outing it was a mistake? and further, if you were actually concerned about possibly getting shot, that makes it stranger to me that you waited. wouldn't that have heightened the urgency when you saw rumi outing?

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3158 Post by pyxxy » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:13 am

wolfu wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:01 pm
okay. i askin because this is the post you made when outing the check:
pyxxy wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:59 am
I'm caught up from where I got pissed off and went and watch youtube for the rest of the flight.

It's past 2:00am for me (later addition: when I started writing this) and I've been awake for almost 20 hours. So I'm not confident. But this game is already such a shit show that if this is a mistake then so be it. Also I half expected to be shot by now. But I think scum is still holding out hope that the real commuter cc's Demon.

Brain gave me the scan (scrying stone) N1 and I scanned Demon N2 and he's guilty as fuck.
(later addition: actually I had to double check my pm, and it doesn't say who I got it from, just describes the item. more on this near the bottom of this post)
and my immediate takeaway is: i'm not sure why you were concerned outing it was a mistake? and further, if you were actually concerned about possibly getting shot, that makes it stranger to me that you waited. wouldn't that have heightened the urgency when you saw rumi outing?
Work wrapping up.

I was probably concerned because I've never done something like this before.

getting shot is re: fake crumbing, so that's probably just ego in the post, only thinking about myself?

I'm not sure I can be of much more help given that was over a week ago? :neutral:

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3159 Post by pyxxy » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:14 am

Not trying to be dismissive like I understand the contradictions between what thought I remembered when posting earlier today and what I actually did in the thread, I probably should have just re-read myself more thoroughly before answering I guess

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3160 Post by wolfu » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:16 am

it's okay, just trying to probe your mindset here

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