MAFIA 75: TROUBLE AT THE PRECINCT [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

hi rumi!

what do you think?

[ghug]

I find it very telling that celaph has chosen to focus on the early game rather than details surrounding the claims.

[worcej]

I feel pretty confident celaph is the scum here. The delays in peek, the peek result he claimed, and CC screams a panicked scum trying to sow confusion. I don’t see the towny nature for why he would wait to CC as bleeder and miss EoN to peek.

[Chaqa]

I have D&D today until about an hour before the theoretical EoD if we hammer.

I'm content to hammer any of celaph, bo, and rivera today.

Just let me know where to vote. I will follow Bona's orders

Wtf

I don't want to get shit on by bo anymore for thinking he's scum, I'm checked out until new info happens.

[ghug]

I have D&D today until about an hour before the theoretical EoD if we hammer.

I'm content to hammer any of celaph, bo, and rivera today.

Just let me know where to vote. I will follow Bona's orders

Wtf

I don't want to get shit on by bo anymore for thinking he's scum, I'm checked out until new info happens.

Why are you listening to Bona and not me, though?

[ghug]

Hi Eden ur dead

[rdrivera2005]

I have learned that I am now AXEL FOLEY (Vanilla)!

[rdrivera2005]

So, I was driven last night.

[bo_sox48]

I have D&D today until about an hour before the theoretical EoD if we hammer.

I'm content to hammer any of celaph, bo, and rivera today.

Just let me know where to vote. I will follow Bona's orders

Wtf

I don't want to get shit on by bo anymore for thinking he's scum, I'm checked out until new info happens.

I don’t care if you think I’m scum. I think you’re scum, and between trying to get PRs to soft in a roleswap or just straight up out to you throughout the game and now trying to avoid having to vote for your partner in a counterclaim it seems pretty obvious from my perspective.

If you were town you’d either scumread me by merit or scumread me by POE if you townread worcej but not distract from the 50/50 shot we have today, which in my opinion is actually a lot better than 50/50 because your partner celaph sucks at counterclaiming. You’d be all over killing me tomorrow. But that’s not what you’re doing because you know that worcej isn’t getting miskilled and you know your literal only chance at winning this game is keeping celaph alive today. That’s why you’re desperate and throwing tantrums, and now shutting down because it’s not working.

Whichever of you two is the strongman fucked up and used the power on Jamie even though you didn’t actually have to, hence your insistence that the strongman power has been used even though a VT as you claim to be would not know whether or not that’s the case.

Shame you killed PE after he openly said he’d be scumreading you if you turned out not to be doc. It would be fun to see him lambast you.

##VOTE Celaph

You’re tomorrow.

[bo_sox48]

So, I was driven last night.

Makes sense; you had the double vote. We’ll need 5 players on celaph today to kill him assuming double vote is on mafia and zero vote is on town.

[rdrivera2005]

I have learned that I am now AXEL FOLEY (Vanilla)!

I think Celaph is probably the bus driver.

[rdrivera2005]

So, I was driven last night.

Makes sense; you had the double vote. We’ll need 5 players on celaph today to kill him assuming double vote is on mafia and zero vote is on town.

We need 5 votes to hammer (tags don't affect hammer I think). We new a 3 vote difference to assure no shenanigan happen with 0 and 2x. But I am pretty sure the remaining Mafia will just bus Celaph. And hopefully Celaph has the 2x vote so we have one thing less to worry about.

[bo_sox48]

I expect Chaqa to have it given celaph was the chosen counterclaim, so he should be voting for celaph.

Presumably you somehow don’t scumread Chaqa right now given you think the remaining mafia is bussing, so you either think worcej or, still playing reactively, I am the last one? Feel free to miss once, but don’t miss Chaqa twice.

[bo_sox48]

If you think it’s Rumi I’ll laugh. I forgot Rumi is even playing, but that D1 was as solid noob town as I’ve ever seen

[Rumi Tobari]

hi rumi!

what do you think?

Well... now that I'm awake and not just sitting in the topic. (and also I admit I burned out pretty hard but will do my best for you all)

Just peeked. I am Alex. I think rdr is scum. ##Vote rdr.

Alex Murphy?

I'm dyslexic. Axel Foley.

I have learned that I am now AXEL FOLEY (Vanilla)!

I think Celaph is probably the bus driver.

I think Celaph talked himself into a corner that is verifiably false if rdr is being truthful about the nametag, and at this point I feel in agreement that Celaph is scum and that his reads feel more concerned with participation than solving.

Also, I feel reasonably convinced that Chaqa is the other member of the scumteam, in part because Chaqa's credibility score in my eyes has significantly dropped and when I'm at a point where I can no longer trust anything Chaqa says at face value, I find "lies because scum" to be a more plausible explanation than "lies for memes"
##vote celaph
##end

[celaph]

at this time snowy and sabi were tied at 5-5. people thought snowy had the bomb and some people (i remember saying this, definitely others though) wanted to remove the bomb, so this line of argument pushes against a snowy wagon. incidentally, celaph (also rdr) would both jump onto sabi within minutes


making explicit the pro-snowy, not anti-sabi, nature of his vote


is this a s cumslip? but this time it's questionable if it's ironic



wat
i feel like this is inconsistent with the post i just quoted but not totally - is this not voting to remove the deathbomb?

I'll take your shade here. I definitely townread snowy D2 and didn't explain it well until after D2.

I don't see how you see my post as a scum slip. My concern D2 is that people were voting Snowy expecting Snowy to flip town and use his bomb take out Sabi expecting them to flip scum. Any town who thought like that should just vote Sabi and doing otherwise is giving cover to scum.

D3 after Snowy was outed and his slot vacant, we have the option of making Snowy the only wagon thus leading to the deathbomb killing no one if he has it. People were advocating alternative wagons for the deathbomb, namely worcej offered himself, while we needed no such thing.

why did you not explain it until afterwards? what prompted you to just state a townread and to then not explain it until the man was dead?

'at worst, deathbomb kills one town' implies that you believed that there was a scum on the block - but your other post, where you vote for sabi because 'snowy has been more towny' (and so there is ZERO stated reasoning that sabi is scum) implies that you believe that there is at least one and possibly two town - in which case, deathbomb would kill two town, in the worst case.

at the time of this post, there was more than just snowy on the block anyways. it couldn't have happened like that.

I put off reading the N2 vitriol because it wasn't enjoyable in the slightest. When I got caught up, Jamie had outed so I just saved my response to his question on why I townread Snowy until EoN3.

If there are two town on the block, one of them is dying to the vote regardless of whether the deathbomb is in play. The second one dies if and only if the deathbomb was triggered. The deathbomb can only ever kill one person so it's makes no sense to say that the deathbomb can kill two town.

The people on the other wagons could have gotten off of their wagons and onto rdr as Demon said that a unanimous hammer doesn't kill anyone. That said, rethinking about it, maybe that was only the case if no one ever voted for anyone else. So maybe I was wrong there.

valid read but then also zero push on neon despite her doing two townie things in 72 hours

I scumread Neon, but not confidently. Then, as part of my first posts on D4, I reviewed HB, grew more confident in my scumread, and put my vote there.

if you say they have two townie things in 72 hours (= one towny thing every day and a half), why on earth would you not be confident? Then once it looks like HB is going to flip (after me and eden dunk hard on him), then you finally come around and start going hard - despite the same pieces that you use to argue not being fundamentally new from after that. your argument came at a time when nothing had really changed except that HB was going to die.

Because her mechanical confusion mid-D2 felt genuine in a way that is hard to fake. It weighed more strongly than if someone was towny from just putting out good analysis once.

I pushed HB then because that was my first time that I've read through him. Though you are right that I wasn't online D4 until after you and Eden had commented on him.

this man criticizes rdr for no analysis but then just caps this shit off with 'nothing i see feels townie and i can't think of why he would do this as his alignment' which is frankly just lazy

Clearly I could do with being more explicit. I scumleaned rdr. That's the simplest and cleanest explanation of his actions. The extent to which he was absent made me wonder whether there was a NAI explanation of his behavior. That uncertainty meant that he was no longer a slam dunk case, not that he was unreadable.

clearly you could do with receiving a town pm one of these days. what was so hard about saying that? and why didn't you? and instead, why did you insert this massive hedge that you could not understand why he was playing as he was with any possible alignment ("The only thing that gives me pause is that while I expect town rdr to be doing much better than this I also expect scum rdr to be doing better")

There is nothing hard in explaining my thoughts. Happy to do it more places that you're confused. As for why I wrote it that way the first time, I was writing down my reasoning on the matter, though I'm seeing that you want more conclusions. I read the two lines "The extent to which he was absent made me wonder whether there was a NAI explanation of his behavior." and "The only thing that gives me pause is that while I expect town rdr to be doing much better than this I also expect scum rdr to be doing better" as meaning the same thing though you clearly have a preferred option.

copycatting my readspost smh
he still agrees with some of what HB says and some soft defending ("I find it notable that you called us wrong in this way. If you were finding the push on you scummy, you’d have surely called that out instead of just saying that people were wrong." - also saying 'us' here implicitly puts celaph in the group of town)

I agreed with HB's comments on you and Eden. The rest of his work I objected to.

why did you only object after HB came under significant pressure?

As I point out above, I wasn't online until after your and Eden's posts so I couldn't have then. And I focused my limited time on EoN3 elsewhere.

he has a big wallpost on rdr debunking various claims n shit he made, but still doesn't make a read

I explained this in part 2 posts after this and in part at EoN. I could see rdr as either town VT or doc given the way he was softing PR. I clearly thought his behavior was anti-town, but I was no longer convinced that he was scum and withheld judgement until I heard more from him.

so despite you apparently believing that he was acting in an 'anti-town' manner, you lessened your scumread on him because he was potentially one of the living town roles out there (VT/doc). what would make you believe, despite the fact that you were more convinced he was acting against town, that he was more likely to be actually town (as shown through your lessened scumread)

A couple things:
1) Bo motivated me to reread Rdr's D1. I had been lending more weight to his town ping on Damo than poor townread on Byz. Made me think that rdr avoided voting Byz to protect his teammate while also avoided voting Damo as it would draw suspicion to vote a townread. Rereading rdr's D1 without that bias, I think his perspective there can be well explained as town.

2) His continued insistence that he wasn't going to die made it clear that he was softing PR. For one, this gave a towny explanation for his otherwise bad scumread on me -- he seems my continued push against his PR soft as scum motivated and not because I don't believe him. I also think PR softs are far more likely to come from town.

[celaph]

More generally, I would characterize rdr’s game as one of avoiding potential confrontations. He avoiding reading PE D1 and also avoiding responding to PE’s follow up comments about the issue. He avoided commenting on Jamie’s D2 scumread of him and my D2 vote on ghug. He only commented on my D2 scumread of him to call me scummy for it without substantial analysis. N3 he avoided providing a read of any substance on Vecna and was incredibly meager is his scumread on Vecna D4. He was happy to call me scum for not commenting on Snowy’s cw on him, but as soon as I went point for point showing where he was wrong he just dropped the issue instead of contesting.

And Vecna get a big question mark.

The first sentence here is part of why I believe rdr more than you - he gave off PR vibes by being lack of confrontational and distant.

What about the lack of confrontation feels like town PR to you? I suppose it comes with an air of confidence? I can see that on some of the points here, but there is nothing towny about not attempting to make reads on PE and Vecna. And I can see scum as just as interested in avoiding confrontation, if not more so.

[ghug]

I have learned that I am now AXEL FOLEY (Vanilla)!

Lmfao

[celaph]

@celaph why don't you make readslists

I always had one partly written, but hadn't thoroughly reviewed everyone at one time until last night. Instead I was just posting the parts of my list that were changing as I read through people.

why didn't you indicate this in thread prior to now?

What kind of indication of that would you expect or look for?

[ghug]

@bo, I want you on a vanity wagon.

Also, someone on celaph needs to drop their end vote ASAP.