MAFIA 75: TROUBLE AT THE PRECINCT [HIDDEN]

[celaph]

Without any context it seems likely that one of the four people that voted for the guy who hadn't posted 17 hours into the game if not more than one is probably scum looking to make it seem like they're doing something important!

##unvote

The timing on this is interesting

My town read becomes less and less firm every 6 hours or so on Rumi...sadge

Why does this weaken your resolve? To your earlier point that mafia don't play like Rumi's playing, this fits that bill perfectly. I see no reason that mafia would feel compelled to step down like that.

Now, I believe that some mafia do play with great awareness of normal mafia patterns and intentionally play against them, but I don't see Rumi as one of those people. I don't think he understands the game well enough to pull that off.

[Jamiet99uk]

So scum isn't usually going to non post. But low post. Yeah. And it is not simply a relative thing. So i am switching to pyxie. Low poster, slight excuses... and then joke hints about claiming to read and then not posting.

So 'till pixie puts more than dust on their promise.
##vote pyx

IME sbpc tends to be only sightly better than rand, and even then depends on meta. I'm only down for it if we have absolutely nothing better.

Do we have nothing better?

Translation please

"Sorting By Post Count" (I think).

[Jamiet99uk]

So Jamie this game has focused their scumhunting efforts on A) blindly voting lowposters and B) OMGUS back and forths. Could be a case of classic active lurking scumming. Could be a villager who hasn't bothered to solve yet. Either way, >rand.

I'd like to float this wagon, though I'm not necessarily out on Eden completely, for an early D1 read at least. Can someone give me what the best case for bo_sox is atm?

"VOTE Jamiet99uk

Your vote is invalid. You need to use "##" before the word "vote".

I am not blindly voting anybody, this is false. My vote for President Eden, in particular, was explained, and was nothing to do with his posting frequency.

Review and discuss, please.

@Byz: You have not responded to this.

Please do so.

[Princess Neon]

The timing on this is interesting

My town read becomes less and less firm every 6 hours or so on Rumi...sadge

Why does this weaken your resolve? To your earlier point that mafia don't play like Rumi's playing, this fits that bill perfectly. I see no reason that mafia would feel compelled to step down like that.

Now, I believe that some mafia do play with great awareness of normal mafia patterns and intentionally play against them, but I don't see Rumi as one of those people. I don't think he understands the game well enough to pull that off.

Because the timing was almost too convenient and that along with other small things I've noticed over time are starting to concern me. Are you so confident that a new player wouldn't see that and panic and move their vote?

[celaph]

Feel like this post makes them likely town though. It's the exact sort of post a newbie trying to solve makes to try to understand the game. One that would be much more likely to made if they had scum chat to turn to.

##UNVOTE for now, but my vote needs a new home

This was my impression too. It's not a hard plan for new scum to come up with I think as it lets them control the flow of information, but I want to at least give Rumi a day or two before pushing them given their initial honesty.


Is scum chat open right now? I feel like it's normally a night thing here. Weak townslip?

Step 1

I find his conclusion logical but dangerous. Detective mindset doesn't necessarily mean Decalogue compliant. For one thing, Ryz only has my statement of having no experience to go by.

For another thing, I've implied a lack of social skills, but my vast paragraphs of rambling clearly disprove that which come to think of it, cast doubt on everything I've ever said. Huh.

Putting aside how my social anxiety affects my ability to ramble about logic problems, mysteries, and death games. By assuming me townie, Ryz becomes closed to hte possibility that it might be an act.

Do you think that Byz is town? You're speaking a lot about him without saying much and while I get is that you think Byz is more likely to be dumb towny than scum, you don't consider the latter.

Step 2

For whatever reason, this entire fucking post strikes me as scummy. I can explain it, because I am a townsperson. I do not oversell myself because that's no bueno.

Actually I'm gonna ##vote Byz

I agree that Byz overselling themselves is weird, but it comes off more as rambling than feeling forced to find a reason. It doesn't sound like he has a filter.

Step 3

Their entire ISO read like someone trying to attach themselves to Byz. It reads as overly protective of the slot.

It feels like they are trying to attach themselves early on. I think if Celaph is woof Byz isn't.

I just don't like that they have exactly 10 posts and 7 of them are

"LOOK AT BYZ BYZ IS TOWN LOOK AT HOW THEY TOWN SLIP"

I'm not sure where you are getting the number 7, it's only 5. But more to your point, I paid attention to him because he is new and active and I was commenting on him because I was liking what I was seeing. The fact that he was the focus of half my posts is simply because I had so few posts and hadn't read a majority of the game.

[celaph]

My town read becomes less and less firm every 6 hours or so on Rumi...sadge

Why does this weaken your resolve? To your earlier point that mafia don't play like Rumi's playing, this fits that bill perfectly. I see no reason that mafia would feel compelled to step down like that.

Now, I believe that some mafia do play with great awareness of normal mafia patterns and intentionally play against them, but I don't see Rumi as one of those people. I don't think he understands the game well enough to pull that off.

Because the timing was almost too convenient and that along with other small things I've noticed over time are starting to concern me. Are you so confident that a new player wouldn't see that and panic and move their vote?

A new player could certainly be panicked by getting some attention, but someone who would get panicked by a singular post would not have played the rest of the day like Rumi has. For example, he said early on that people townreading him was dangerous. That's not someone who is looking to hide.

[Jamiet99uk]

I've caught up in reading which was a mistake because I'll be tired tomorrow.

@jamie, I think you're barking up the wrong tree in Eden. He was obviously minimally concerned with the votes on him so early especially the arguably sarcastic vote from Sabi. His comment about not reading the setup was entirely forgettable, notwithstanding the fact that I had forgotten about it until you asked what people thought about his lies and I searched for what you were looking for. And I'm a little put off by the fact that you are fixated on this minutia while ignoring the rest of Eden's actions. Because the way that he has been questioning people to learn more and explaining his views in a way that I can easily see where he is coming from are incredibly towny.

Thanks for your thoughts.

What is your current read on Ghug? Or Rdrivera? Or Damo?

[Chaqa]

So yea join the damo wagon.

It has cookies and lemonade.

I'm in it.

It would be really funny to limm him day one

(I have been using limm instead of day kill as personal choice)

What does limm mean?

Just a short way of saying eliminate. I use limlo now instead of lylo so that's why I switched to limm for day kill to match that.

Ligmylo

[celaph]

What is your current read on Ghug? Or Rdrivera? Or Damo?

I'm leaning town on rdr with the only real thing holding me back is a couple of odd comments he's made.

For example, I agreed with his overall sentiment about Byz:

I really like this post. Not so sure about Eden as I don't read him well, but many townie points to Byz

Eden called out rdr's lack of willingness to read Eden earlier, but I was also thrown off by him awarding "many" townie points. Byz's post wasn't that good and it feels like a weird thing to exaggerate. He's also said that he's better as mafia than town though he's done well as town before and feels like he's trying to lower expectations.

Besides the oddities, I feel like he's put out some good takes. I liked his earlier read on Byz, his comments about Sabi x Eden, and his recent question about Bona. So I'm tempted to keep him around, though keeping an eye on the slot.

Ghug's NAI in the sense that I think scum ghug is easily capable of playing like this, but he's playing exactly like I would expect town ghug to play. He's 'inactive', but speaking in a way that I can tell that he is still reading the game critically. You can see both an initial reaction and him fitting that reaction into a larger context that feels like he's trying to solve.

Damo has been entirely forgettable. Certainly a point of concern.

[Chaqa]

Just a short way of saying eliminate. I use limlo now instead of lylo so that's why I switched to limm for day kill to match that.

Ah, I like KILO.

can’t hold a candle to Vader

Boooo

[celaph]

Vecna can you obvtown so I can sheep you? #jargon

in pretty much no game where we've been town together did you think I was obv-town, so what are you really asking for?

posturing baby. posturing.

lets dance

Yeaaaaa I don't like ghug post at all

Why do you think that ghug's scummy for this post? Because I agree that it's not a good post, but I don't think it's a bad one. It strikes me as very normal ghug behavior to ask Vecna to obvtown.

[celaph]

@Byz/Justin what are your thoughts on these posts

viewtopic.php?p=306602#p306602

viewtopic.php?p=306610#p306610

That is... Genuinely really weird. Especially if it was 7/10 posts. I don't even really understand why celaph acts that way towards my slot as scum. Unless they were starting to fear up to create a "progression" leading to voting me.

So now I gotta ISO celaph AND Chaqa

Oh no, I have to read all 3 of celaph's posts! Whatever will I do???

As I told Neon, I just liked your early posts and find them only slightly dampened by Bona's comments that you were very intentional with your posts the last game you two played.

[Byz]

@Byz/Justin what are your thoughts on these posts

viewtopic.php?p=306602#p306602

viewtopic.php?p=306610#p306610

That is... Genuinely really weird. Especially if it was 7/10 posts. I don't even really understand why celaph acts that way towards my slot as scum. Unless they were starting to fear up to create a "progression" leading to voting me.

So now I gotta ISO celaph AND Chaqa

Oh no, I have to read all 3 of celaph's posts! Whatever will I do???

As I told Neon, I just liked your early posts and find them only slightly dampened by Bona's comments that you were very intentional with your posts the last game you two played.

Makes enough sense to me lol. I guess I just wasnt expecting to have any sort of reputation, because I've never played on that site and only wander out of playdip once in a blue moon.

Rn I'll fix my vote on Jamie, double check your ISO (especially if it's so easy) and then see how I can meaningfully contribute to D1, knowing I'll only have read like a quarter of the thread by eod. IME the "signal to noise ratio" is a much higher indicator of scum play than low posting period, so from a quick glance this is the better of the three-ish votes in play. But I'm interested in what's going on with bo_sox, maybe I'll ISO there after seeing Eden's Chaqa case.

##VOTE Jamiet99uk

[celaph]

I think ill resort to proving my townyness this game by mediocre shittalking, snowy style

SQUACK!

[Byz]

My pronouns are he/him celaph

Reading your ISO, I would like to know who you actually scumread. I know some players solve by townread, but if it comes down to it, who are you pushing over today?

[celaph]

@worcej, what is your read on Sabi so far? I feel like you've made a number of comments about it, but it's not clear where you stand.

Sabi is playing as expected here.

I don’t disregard it, but I don’t trust it. The fundamental problem for you though is relying on Sabi’s opinion if you by itself makes me want to flip you more on D1 to gain more information on Sabi going forward.

FWIW, I think your correct that there is no change at a substance level to Sabi’s attempt to play but is definitely asking less ‘noisy’ questions than the last time Sabi played.

I would mark it as an improvement but also NAI for them.

[Rumi Tobari]

My pronouns are he/him celaph

Reading your ISO, I would like to know who you actually scumread. I know some players solve by townread, but if it comes down to it, who are you pushing over today?

By the way. she/her. I didn't care enough to say anything before Bona brought up me being his long lost brother, but nobody got the hint, so I dropped it. This seems like a good opportunity to mention it again

The timing on this is interesting

My town read becomes less and less firm every 6 hours or so on Rumi...sadge

Why does this weaken your resolve? To your earlier point that mafia don't play like Rumi's playing, this fits that bill perfectly. I see no reason that mafia would feel compelled to step down like that.

Now, I believe that some mafia do play with great awareness of normal mafia patterns and intentionally play against them, but I don't see Rumi as one of those people. I don't think he understands the game well enough to pull that off.

I have saiid this multiple times throughout the thread. But early on I wasn't sure who I wanted to vote for because I literally can't tell who isn't town at this point, so I was only voting Bo to tie the game keep Eden in because I find Eden's explanations concise, understandable, and helpful, at least now that I'm not viewing them as suspicious and an attempt to befriend me. (which remindds me, now that I've slept I need to read the game explanation from the bot page, even if it is apparently years out of date)

Then someone, I can't remember who at this time (who isn't relevent to the line of reasoning) pointed out that two of the nametags double a player's vote points or nullify the vote, and someone else linked me to the nametag document and I realized that there was no real point doing so, but otherwise had idae what to do with my vote now and kind of forgot.

Then Bo pointed out that he feels that one of the four votes is probably scum, and i remembered that I''m still voting for Bo despite having no valid reason to do so so I changed my vote. When Bo decided it was a scumread, I changed my vote back out of spite.

And I have acknowledged twice, that spite voting Bo is not a productive thing to do at all, it accomplishes nothing in terms of identifying the mafia as A. the original vote itself was based on faulty assumptions and B. spite votes are literally the kind of retalitory voting I was accusing Sabi of doing to Eden as being unproductive. (especially if its a spite vote that could potentially remove Bo from the game for a petty reason rather than an important one)

But... I have no idea who else to vote for. I'm realizing that I can't tell what is and isn't suspicious. Eden had to link me to dabo's post list thing in the bot for me to realize that I don't actually know what to look for, the terminology being used by everyone, or the tools available to me as a whole. (I didn't even know there was a way to view all of a player's posts) and while I recognize that Damo is just kind of going along with toher's opinions, I couldn't grasp that meant anything without the "figure it out yourself" type attention being drawn to it.

And even then, given the vote breakdown, I cant' see what changing my vote to Damo will accomplish at this point. If someone thinks that maybe I should do something productive besides spite voting Bo, can we please help me out here.

Also Sabi, I'm sorry I accidentally said you declared Neon not to be town that you had to refute me. I was tried. I mistyped. I apologize.

@worcej, what is your read on Sabi so far? I feel like you've made a number of comments about it, but it's not clear where you stand.

Sabi is playing as expected here.

I don’t disregard it, but I don’t trust it. The fundamental problem for you though is relying on Sabi’s opinion if you by itself makes me want to flip you more on D1 to gain more information on Sabi going forward.

FWIW, I think your correct that there is no change at a substance level to Sabi’s attempt to play but is definitely asking less ‘noisy’ questions than the last time Sabi played.

I would mark it as an improvement but also NAI for them.

I don't know what to make of the Sabi/Neon thing, but I think Sabi is too unconditionally trusting of Neon being town purely on prior experiences with her rather than because of all the reasons others have used to townread her in this game, the constant wording and rushing to her defense feels somewhat biased in my opinion. I don't know what that means for Sabi's alignment though if anything.

[dargorygel]

So (and working on my phone. So I am even less tech able than usual) pixie arrived and thrilled us with the promise of open tabs awaiting his attention. I did not read enough responses to warrant a promise of tabs. But eventually he brings up sabi's overprotective of two newbies, neon and rumi. He finds it sus that sabi in the end defends rumi less than neon. Pixie posts a wall post (his definition) about it. He wonders about sabi's over defense particularly of neon.

Two oddities... no mention of the newbie that sabi didn’t even bother to defend at sll. If pixie is sus about sabi and neon, and sabi and rumi, why not sabi and byz? He did think rumi had also been invited by sabi. But it is not veey thorough. This tastes like a fake case.

Second, i had also wondered about the sabi neon rumi connection, and learned that rumi had not been invited by sabi. This was revealed before pyxxy presented his case. Again, not very thorough.

And when vecna responds, not finding the situation notable, pyxxy says nothing. Might be a reasonable townie moving on...but it seems too casual for a real case.

[Byz]

I’m just teasing you because you came in like a big shot and haven’t delivered. You seem like the type that would enjoy that kind of banter and would feel extra motivated to stick it to somebody who’s messing with you.

Normally I would and I appreciate what you and Bona are doing with this angle. This game was just pushing too much for my workload, I blame Sabi. I’m trying to level with you here to cut to what hoping to get in the time I have (I’m already on my phone with a guest at my place, like a mongrel).

But making the best of it, what I think I’m really looking for is some stuff in this game that doesn’t rely on meta. Meta is a powerful tool, but one I can’t rely on. A specific quote or two as to how they are “going with the flow”. If you have those prepared, I’ll take them. Otherwise, I can spend most of my time ISOing, but I won’t be done with that for a while.

I’ll be honest, most of my reads on most people here are going to be meta-driven because I’ve known a lot of these people for forever. Stripping away meta context you shouldn’t be particularly moved by my read on Chaqa bc he’s not abnormal relative to the rest of the thread, only relative to what I’ve seen of past town play.

now enjoy your guest, we can catch up later, we’re not killing each other d1

This is tough for me because a lot of cases are meta driven, and meta is very useful to solve. But I don't know any of the meta lol

ISO says Chaqa has the least words/post and to me that's kind of townie, so no vote there for me today

[Jamiet99uk]

@Byz:

Are you trolling me?

You've now twice ignored my response to your (misguided) suspicions of me, and for some reason you're now voting me.

Are you trolling me? I think you are trolling me.